Religious belief & intelligence

[wayne71]

John Lennox is an intelligent believer, he had a entertaining debate with Dawkins. Its on youtube for anyone interested, unfortunately I'm too stupid to post a link.

 

[Bluemoon115]

Not intelligence as such but I don't like the whole stereotype of science against religion. ( I'm a final year student in Theoretical Physics and Maths)

I'm not "stick to the holy text" religious, but I believe in something bring out there.

What annoys me is people who call themselves scientists "disproving" God by saying that the big bang created the universe and not God.
What they fall to realise is that the big bang is just how the universe came to be as we know it now. Something had to be there for there to be a big bang.. and where did that come from?

I.e what fuelled the explosion and, what set the fuse?

No it didn't. The laws of the universe (in this instance, cause and effect) only apply in the universe. "Before the universe" (a very loose scientific term) nothing has to have happened (cause) to create the universe (effect).

I'm not "stick to the holy text" religious, but I believe in something bring out there.

So, you "believe" when it's convenient then?

 

[everythingchangesbutblue]

Far more scientists than you might think believe in a God. It always amazes me how so many people in everyday life do have faith in a creator but none here on bluemoon, well i do- the universe is amazing and the more and more i read about its intricacies it gets hard not to. There are things that go on at the particle level that defy belief had they not been proven as fact and its not that big a jump to imagine a being from another plane,dimension or even that were a programme on a computer simulation somewhere. Theres a reason its called faith and no matter what arguments for or against some will have it and some will not. One thing i get asked from time to time is there can't anything before or after death as we have no memory of anything before we were born and i always say i don't have any memory of being 8 months old either. Peace and love people.

 

[Skashion]

I.e what fuelled the explosion and, what set the fuse?

What came before God?

 

[Matty]

If used in the correct way...which the majority of people do. Unfortunately it gives certain crazy people a platform for greed, power, corruption, violence, hate etc

I'm sure you fit in with the majority :)

Indeed. Do you think however these extremists would just be normal citizens without religion or would it just be something else they "blame" it on?

I don't have an answer to that I'm afraid. One of my friends hates gays because the bible says it's wrong. Would he still hate gays if he wasn't religious?...maybe, maybe not.

That's the kind of justification that pisses me off. I hate gays because the bible says it's wrong. Well, guess what, the bible says a fuck load of things are wrong, do you hate all of those things? Every last one of them?

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

So, I assume he hates ham sandwiches?

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Hates tattoos does he?

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

I hope his parents never gave him a bowl haircut as a child.

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

I hope he's never taken a football to the nads, if so that's heaven buggered for him.

Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Reads his horoscope does he? Or ever seen a Harry Potter film?

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the LORD.

That's gossiping, of having a chat, out the window as well.

When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets

Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

"Leave it Darren, he's not worth it". Right, that's it, give me your hand, now where's my knife?

And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Never said a bad word to his parents either?

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off

I assume he's never worked on a Sunday?

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

I assume he woman slaps any women who has the audacity to actually talk in church?

And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination

No Prawn Bhuna for him.

But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you

Never had sex before he was married either?

It's the selective adherance that gets to me. The bible is, apparently, the word of God. If you hate gays because God says being homosexual is wrong in the bible then you HAVE to adhere to EVERYTHING that God says in the bible. It's not a pick and chose process, it's the word of God, and as such, you have to do it all! If he has ever done any of the things listed above, or indeed allowed others to do them in his presence, then the only correct response to his homophobia explanation is "Oh just fuck off".

 

[Bluemoon115]

Indeed. Do you think however these extremists would just be normal citizens without religion or would it just be something else they "blame" it on?

I don't have an answer to that I'm afraid. One of my friends hates gays because the bible says it's wrong. Would he still hate gays if he wasn't religious?...maybe, maybe not.

That's the kind of justification that pisses me off. I hate gays because the bible says it's wrong. Well, guess what, the bible says a fuck load of things are wrong, do you hate all of those things? Every last one of them?

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

So, I assume he hates ham sandwiches?

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Hates tattoos does he?

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

I hope his parents never gave him a bowl haircut as a child.

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

I hope he's never taken a football to the nads, if so that's heaven buggered for him.

Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Reads his horoscope does he? Or ever seen a Harry Potter film?

Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the LORD.

That's gossiping, of having a chat, out the window as well.

When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets

Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

"Leave it Darren, he's not worth it". Right, that's it, give me your hand, now where's my knife?

And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Never said a bad word to his parents either?

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off

I assume he's never worked on a Sunday?

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

I assume he woman slaps any women who has the audacity to actually talk in church?

And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination

No Prawn Bhuna for him.

But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you

Never had sex before he was married either?

It's the selective adherance that gets to me. The bible is, apparently, the word of God. If you hate gays because God says being homosexual is wrong in the bible then you HAVE to adhere to EVERYTHING that God says in the bible. It's not a pick and chose process, it's the word of God, and as such, you have to do it all! If he has ever done any of the things listed above, or indeed allowed others to do them in his presence, then the only correct response to his homophobia explanation is "Oh just fuck off".

No doubt the "Old testament doesn't count because of Jebus" argument will come out soon.

 

[Matty]

No doubt the "Old testament doesn't count because of Jebus" argument will come out soon.

Is it the New Testament that says being gay is a sin then, or the Old Testament?

 

[Bluemoon115]

No doubt the "Old testament doesn't count because of Jebus" argument will come out soon.

Is it the New Testament that says being gay is a sin then, or the Old Testament?

It doesn't matter. God's word is clear. Except when it's inconvenient. Then Jesus.

 

[Johnsonontheleft]

If I believed that an omnipotent pink flying elephant orbits the earth and controls everything on it in 'mysterious ways', people would think I wasn't intelligent. Simple as that really, which is why religious belief (or blind faith in anything with no evidence to back it up) and intelligence are diametrically opposed.

 

[George Hannah]

If I believed that an omnipotent pink flying elephant orbits the earth and controls everything on it in 'mysterious ways', people would think I wasn't intelligent.....

and even if you didn't