Restoring the Death Penalty in Britain

[LittleStan]

Do you disagree with the death penalty given to the nazis after the Nuremberg trials?

Didn't you ask this question the other day?

Yes, there was a bit of light banter before I went to bed, woke up and this.

I think the spuds riot got them going.

Jiust got a text to say my ride is arriving... off to the match.


Yes and you was the only one of the opposers who answered.

I see this thread went west late on

 

[TCIB]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

 

[Damocles]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

You want a civilised debate about why it's ok to kill people. That's why civilised debate isn't possible; because the act that you are promoting is in itself uncivilised. It's like having a civilised debate about allowing rape.

 

[Lucky13]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

You want a civilised debate about why it's ok to kill people. That's why civilised debate isn't possible; because the act that you are promoting is in itself uncivilised. It's like having a civilised debate about allowing rape.

I'd argue that a civilised society protects it's citizens and going off the amount of rapists that re-offend it doesn't.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

Whilst I profoundly disagree with capital punishment for reasons already outlined here and on other threads it never ceases to amaze me how people can blindly ascribe the term 'right wing' to pro capital punishment devotees.

We had hanging throughout Clement Attlee's time at No 10. And Ramsey Macdonald's.

Were they 'right wing'?

Actually to some on here they were probably crypto-fascists.

 

[Lucky13]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

Whilst I profoundly disagree with capital punishment for reasons already outlined here and on other threads it never ceases to amaze me how people can blindly ascribe the term 'right wing' to pro capital punishment devotees.

We had hanging throughout Clement Attlee's time at No 10. And Ramsey Macdonald's.

Were they 'right wing'?

Actually to some on here they were probably crypto-fascists.

China's the best example.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

Whilst I profoundly disagree with capital punishment for reasons already outlined here and on other threads it never ceases to amaze me how people can blindly ascribe the term 'right wing' to pro capital punishment devotees.

We had hanging throughout Clement Attlee's time at No 10. And Ramsey Macdonald's.

Were they 'right wing'?

Actually to some on here they were probably crypto-fascists.

It is because their debating skills are limited and blinded by their hatred of anything or anybody who has the temerity to hold an opposing view. I would estimate that if offered a referenda the country would vote for it's re-introduction, if the question was phrased simplistically; this will probably brand me as a fascist lunatic in favour of gassing/sterilisation etc.
I'm against by the way, so don't shout at me.

 

[SWP's back]

I think you missed the winking smiley face of the end of that.

I was hoping the fact that it was such a stupid statement to make would suggest people wouldn't take it seriously.

Alas, I overestimate people.

One word of advice in off topic.

Never, ever overestimate ernesto.

Lol<br /><br />-- Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:53 pm --<br /><br />

With all respect what a stupid statement. I never want to here from them again (in multiple or horrendous killings). I really dont want to know if they are having a whale of a time or for that matter being fed dogshite for every meal. when you stop behaving human, you forgive the right foe humane treatment.

No, you don't. The whole point that we make about human rights is that they are inalienable. That's the entire argument against killing someone.

Honestly, do you guys not understand the MASSIVE hypocrisy in this? Can you just not see it?

Do you disagree with the death penalty given to the nazis after the Nuremberg trials?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Why can't you understand that?

 

[mrbelfry]

I don't really want to get into an argument with Damocles because I've seen him destroy much more capable people than me :) but I do see a distinction between a crime such as Harold Shipman's and any subsequent 'lawful execution'. I don't see someone who thinks Shipman should be executed as someone who is necessarily a hypocrite or uncivilised.

No one is arguing for the return of the death penalty for parking offences but for extremely serious crimes. It could be argued that they hold human life in such high regard that the only appropriate response for the unlawful taking of a life (or several lives) is the lawful taking of one. Is that a more appropriate response than incarcerating someone for life? Aren't both an infringement of some ones human rights (although one is more severe) and uncivilised?

By saying you are in favour of prison sentences are you a person who is comfortable with denying someone there freedom and taking many choices away from them? Would you be happy with having someone in your house who you confine to a single room, determine when and what they eat, who they socialise with etc. If you are happy for the state to imprison someone would you be happy to imprison someone your self?

Every society has a set of rules and a set of written or unwritten consequences if you break those rules. If you are part of a society then you are bound by those rules and if you break them then the consequence normally is an act that if you committed would be an infringement of those rules ie it would be unlawful of me to imprison someone but it is not for the state. You cannot opt out of those rules unless you opt out of the society.

In any event I don't believe that society should have the power to punish someone for any crimes by using the death penalty irregardless of 100% irrefutable proof (which despite what CSI tells us forensic science doesn't provide). Punishment doesn't equal justice and in the extreme case of Harold Shipman his death (admittedly by suicide) in no way 'makes up' for the crimes he committed. Nothing could. Maybe it makes the loved ones victims feel better but maybe it doesn't and his death doesn't bring the victims back.

I've yet to formulate a position on why tax payers should pay for his incarceration when the money might be better spent on hospitals but I do believe we need to treat prisoners as humans even when their acts may be considered 'inhuman' - when we start to view anyone as less human than someone else then we lose a little of our own humanity and start down a slippery slope that leads to all kinds of bad places

 

[TCIB]

Lucky13 mate i think you are wasting your breath with many here. Me and others tried for a civilised debate here also. Most guys here post with a closed mindset and will not consider thinking outside of that generalization they have.
If you do they abandon reason and try pulling the right wing card on you.

You want a civilised debate about why it's ok to kill people. That's why civilised debate isn't possible; because the act that you are promoting is in itself uncivilised. It's like having a civilised debate about allowing rape.

Explain to me the correlation between allowing rape and justice for murder.

Quote me where i said its "ok to kill people". We are talking about criminal punishment not casually killing people as your post insinuates.
A criminal investigation with forensic analysis and then a judgement passed down after carefull consideration of all the evidence to then be casually reffered to in the way you do suggests a very poor understanding of the law.

Would you call the Romans uncivilized ? or the Greeks ? I suggest to you that the death of a person as a penalty for severe crimes has existed in civilized society for longer than you would like to aknowledge. The two are inextricably linked your logic is flawed. A civilized debate is happening here now between some members who are willing to debate and talk.

Here for example <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sharon_Beshenivsky" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_ ... eshenivsky</a>. The gang involved were career criminals some were asylum seekers we could not deport due to human rights.
They demonstrated extreme anti social and criminal tendancies and were responsible for multiple armed robberies with indiscriminate discharging of firearms.
They demonstated many times over a casual abandon for the value of human life.

I hope you enjoy your tax pennies paying for the incarceration of these people who are lost to humanity and have little to no way of being rehabilitated to function in general society.