Rishi Sunak

[ChicagoBlue]

The problem with the conservative party at the moment is it's a sort of flag convenience for the waifs and strays from other extreme right wing parties, such as UKIP. When they realised their support for foghorns of ignorance like Farage or whoever wasn't going to get them anywhere, they joined a 'respectable' political party that traditional conservative members didn't recognise was happening.

Over 50% of long standing conservative members have cancelled their membership since 2019 because their party doesn't represent the values they hold, and we are in a pickle because of that. As one analyst said today, there are so many shades of blue within the tories, unity of any sort will be almost impossible to achieve, and when you factor in the disperate political backgrounds of so many conservative MP's and cabinet members, I'm finding it hard to disagree with that viewpoint.

I don't think it's a political party with a unity of purpose at the moment, and as there is so much infighting between them, any sort of agreement on how best to run the country will be impossible.

Sunak and Mourdant were the two front runners in the leadership campaign. The figures haven't been published, but it's probable that a third of tory MP's couldn't find it within themselves to select either candidate, which doesn't bode well.

Change the names and minor circumstances, and you have, albeit to a lesser degree in the UK, MAGA America and the Republican Party!

Real conservatives and historical Republicans abhor what they are seeing from the MAGA Extremes in “their party,” but it is a loose amalgam, at best, and more of an Anti-Democratic Party at this point.

Sadly, though, it is built on a foundation of lies and tropes that doesn’t hold up to any serious examination, which means it will fail spectacularly in the cold harsh light of day. The questions then become “How?“ and “Who gets hurt?” I’m not looking forward to finding out those answers.

 

[jacko74]

Yes the WEF is influential. If you think it has actual power over government decisions then you really do need to get measured up for a tin foil hat if you haven’t got one already.

No point in trying to discuss this any further with someone who is clearly so ill informed, gullible, naive and probably scared as to believe the WEF is little more than a benign lobby group, capable of no more political influence than the W.I.

A group made up of the wealthiest, most senior and most powerful past and present politicians, bankers, industrialists and establishment figures has no meaningful influence over national and international policy formulation, just laughable.

You enjoy your warm milk, you might find adding a bit Laudanum to it helps as well.

 

[jacko74]

The point is there's no conspiracy and no master plan. It's all bullshit put forward by the likes of QAnon and unhinged Trump supporters. These conspiracy theories have about as much credibility as QAnon's Pizzagate conspiracy theory claiming prominent Democrats including Biden and Hillary ate babies and drank their blood.

That's not "the point"... to claim that the WEF is nothing more than a benign and mostly ineffectual lobby group with no meaningful political influence at all, and anyone who thinks otherwise also obviously believes that Hilary Clinton sacrificed babies and drank their blood in the basement of a Pizza Parlour, you're really not doing your argument any favours at all.

 

[west didsblue]

No point in trying to discuss this any further with someone who is clearly so ill informed, gullible, naive and probably scared as to believe the WEF is little more than a benign lobby group, capable of no more political influence than the W.I.

A group made up of the wealthiest, most senior and most powerful past and present politicians, bankers, industrialists and establishment figures has no meaningful influence over national and international policy formulation, just laughable.

You enjoy your warm milk, you might find adding a bit Laudanum to it helps as well.

In your quest to be the most patronising twat on the forum you’ve missed a key point - I agreed that the WEF is influential. How could it not be with the membership it has. What I said is that it has no power to directly control government policy anywhere and if you believe that it does, which appears to be the case, then you’re a nut job.

 

[M18CTID]

That's not "the point"... to claim that the WEF is nothing more than a benign and mostly ineffectual lobby group with no meaningful political influence at all, and anyone who thinks otherwise also obviously believes that Hilary Clinton sacrificed babies and drank their blood in the basement of a Pizza Parlour, you're really not doing your argument any favours at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong but @west didsblue never said that. He said that they do have influence. Just nowhere near as much influence as the Trump-loving QAnon-worshipping loons claim.

 

[west didsblue]

Correct me if I'm wrong but @west didsblue never said that. He said that they do have influence. Just nowhere near as much influence as the Trump-loving QAnon-worshipping loons claim.

He appears to have problems with comprehension and incorrectly applied hyperbole.
Best ignored.

 

[jacko74]

In your quest to be the most patronising twat on the forum you’ve missed a key point - I agreed that the WEF is influential. How could it not be with the membership it has. What I said is that it has no power to directly control government policy anywhere and if you believe that it does, which appears to be the case, then you’re a nut job.

In your quest to be the most patronising twat on the forum you’ve missed a key point - I agreed that the WEF is influential. How could it not be with the membership it has. What I said is that it has no power to directly control government policy anywhere and if you believe that it does, which appears to be the case, then you’re a nut job.

I didn't miss your point regarding the WEF being "influential"
Can you explain to me precisely where the point occurs that differentiates between "influence" and "control".
To my mind the two terms are entirely interchangeable depending on the degree to which any individual or organisation holds "influence" over another.

 

[Gabriel]

 

[west didsblue]

I didn't miss your point regarding the WEF being "influential"
Can you explain to me precisely where the point occurs that differentiates between "influence" and "control".
To my mind the two terms are entirely interchangeable depending on the degree to which any individual or organisation holds "influence" over another.

Control would mean that an agreement at the WEF means that it will become government policy because the WEF member would be able to dictate government policy in his own country.

Influence means that the person making the agreement at the WEF will make the argument in his home country and try his best to gain the support of the ruling party to introduce that policy. Because that person may well be in a senior government position or is an ex leader doesn’t make it automatic that what he says will happen.

It’s really not that difficult to understand. The terms “influence” and “control” are clearly not interchangeable because they mean different things.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It'll be fine. Gavin Williamson is back in as a Minister Without Portfolio, and so soon after his early knighthood for knowing where the bodies are buried (I forget exactly whose, and who buried them).