Rishi Sunak

[woody1968]

You do realise it’s possible to fully support the government’s backing of Ukraine whilst questioning the motivation? The Ukraine thread is not on the political forum and would not be the right place to discuss that aspect. If you actually believe personal self interest has not played a part in both Johnson’s and Sunak’s motivation to help Ukraine then you’re deluding yourself. Both of them have put themselves and their backers ahead of what’s best for Britain in everything else. It’s just that this time the UK’s national interest for once coincides with their own self interest, and that’s to provide the level of support to Ukraine that we’re doing.

Well said. Johnson has never done anything in his life that didn’t involve personal self interest in the other hand Capt Scarlett Sunak is a clueless puppet.

 

[Brewster's millions]

You need to ask yourself why we were in the position that the government needed to provide so much support to energy prices. It wasn’t because they wanted to, it’s because prices went up more than anywhere else to a totally unsustainable level that would have crashed the economy if they did nothing. We should have been in a better position than most countries due to the availability of domestic gas but the government decided that the windfall profits of the wholesale suppliers was more important to retain.

Some people just embarrass themselves with their lack of insight and slavish support of the Tories however corrupt or pathetic their leaders are.

Domestic gas production did increase significantly last year versus 2021, but not enough to prevent wholesale prices rising, which naturally required the government response. A government response which was timely, expensive to implement and clearly in the national interest, particularly with regard to helping the poorest in society.

Given that you mentioned it, it is quite interesting though to look how the domestic share of natural gas supply has evolved over time. Very interesting in fact. For instance it was 100% in 1998 - domestic production was slightly above total UK demand actually - as was the case in 1999 and 2000.

But by 2010, the domestic share of natural gas supply had fallen to just 58%. A huge drop off. Can I call upon your fantastic insight and ask you remind me who was in power during that period please?

 

[woody1968]

I didn’t need it, why was I given it?

Boris just loves to be popular - it’s in his self interest.

 

[Brewster's millions]

I didn’t need it, why was I given it?

That’s a fair point, and I didn’t need or ask for the support either.

But in terms of providing a quick response, I’m not sure there were too many options. The government could have simply extended more support for benefit claimants, but would this have been the fairest option, given both the scale of the increase in energy prices and the likelihood that people on low income levels but not receiving benefits would have missed out entirely?

 

[west didsblue]

Domestic gas production did increase significantly last year versus 2021, but not enough to prevent wholesale prices rising, which naturally required the government response. A government response which was timely, expensive to implement and clearly in the national interest, particularly with regard to helping the poorest in society.

Given that you mentioned it, it is quite interesting though to look how the domestic share of natural gas supply has evolved over time. Very interesting in fact. For instance it was 100% in 1998 - domestic production was slightly above total UK demand actually - as was the case in 1999 and 2000.

But by 2010, the domestic share of natural gas supply had fallen to just 58%. A huge drop off. Can I call upon your fantastic insight and ask you remind me who was in power during that period please?

Great demonstration of ignorance of how the energy markets work in normal times. Just looking at one metric in isolation tells you very little, is pretty much unrelated to who was in power, and is a clear distraction as to why our prices went up more than anyone else’s in Europe even with the government support that was given.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Great demonstration of ignorance of how the energy markets work in normal times. Just looking at one metric in isolation tells you very little, is pretty much unrelated to who was in power, and is a clear distraction as to why our prices went up more than anyone else’s in Europe even with the government support that was given.

Classic response, really.

The ‘one metric in isolation’ is the one you identified as an apparent failing of the current government, and a key contributory factor to the UK’s higher energy prices. When the facts around domestic gas production are outlined to you - which you were clearly completely unaware of - you then change your argument and describe it as meaningless, and accuse me of ignorance.

Genuinely very funny.

 

[west didsblue]

Classic response, really.

The ‘one metric in isolation’ is the one you identified as an apparent failing of the current government, and a key contributory factor to the UK’s higher energy prices. When the facts around domestic gas production are outlined to you - which you were clearly completely unaware of - you then change your argument and describe it as meaningless, and accuse me of ignorance.

Genuinely very funny.

The fact that domestic gas production makes up a significant proportion of our total energy requirements meant that the government had options on how to deal with the energy price crisis. It meant we need not have been totally dependent on the world wholesale market price like many other countries were. But the government chose not to do anything within their control on the supply side, and instead funded the difference between consumer bills and the world wholesale rate, thereby giving the energy producers a huge windfall. Gas producing companies like Shell, Centrica and BP were on record as saying they expected a windfall tax and were prepared for it but the government instead effectively funded their windfall profits. If our domestic supply was 100% of our needs there’s absolutely no indication that the government would have done anything different. Just more money would have gone to domestic producers. That’s why whether domestic production meets all or half our needs is irrelevant to what the government did even though it didn’t have to be.

I await your next deflection and idiotic sarcastic comment.

 

[Brewster's millions]

The fact that domestic gas production makes up a significant proportion of our total energy requirements meant that the government had options on how to deal with the energy price crisis. It meant we need not have been totally dependent on the world wholesale market price like many other countries were. But the government chose not to do anything within their control on the supply side, and instead funded the difference between consumer bills and the world wholesale rate, thereby giving the energy producers a huge windfall. Gas producing companies like Shell, Centrica and BP were on record as saying they expected a windfall tax and were prepared for it but the government instead effectively funded their windfall profits. If our domestic supply was 100% of our needs there’s absolutely no indication that the government would have done anything different. Just more money would have gone to domestic producers. That’s why whether domestic production meets all or half our needs is irrelevant to what the government did even though it didn’t have to be.

I await your next deflection and idiotic sarcastic comment.

That’s nonsense I’m afraid.

If domestic production is less than 100% of demand, then the pricing of domestically produced gas is always going to be related to global wholesale pricing. This is how commodity markets operate. Why would domestic gas and imported gas - which both end up in the same place - have completely different and unrelated pricing?

You’re imagining a situation where the government controls the supply side and sets the price of domestically-produced gas, which is nonsensical. That situation simply doesn’t exist, and it can’t exist unless the UK produces 100% of its own gas, which did happen when the last Labour government came to power, but certainly didn’t by the time it was voted out.

I also note that you’re (conveniently) ignoring the Energy Profits Levy, which the OBR estimates will raise £40bn over the next few years, through the higher taxation of gas producers.

 

[metalblue]

I’ve already said backing Ukraine is in the UK’s interest and is the right thing to do.

However I’m questioning Johnson’s and Sunak’s motivation for it, not because they’re Tories but because they’ve done so many other things against the country’s best interest just to give themselves a headline or a catchphrase they can use to retain power.

Up until Johnson took over as PM, I believe every previous PM, including Cameron and May, were acting in what they thought was the nation’s interest. They made big mistakes but that’s another issue. However with Johnson it all changed to being all about him. Why would his motivation be to act in the country’s best interest on Ukraine when he acted in his own best interest on everything else? We’re just lucky that in this case the national interest coincided with his own interest.

You’re going to have to much better than that mate, Johnson’s gone so let’s just focus on the here and now and Sunak.

What personal interests does the UK sending Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine provide for Sunak?

What personal interests does the UK sending shadow storm to Ukraine provide Sunak?

Name one single thing that the UK provides Ukraine that is in Sunak’s personal interests. Just one.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Ben Wallace is off, standing down from defence at the next reshuffle, thought to be in September. Won't be standing at the next election.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Ben Wallace is off, standing down from defence at the next reshuffle, thought to be in September. Won't be standing at the next election.

His constituency is being dissolved so it's not a bad time for him to move on.

 

[bluethrunthru]

His constituency is being dissolved so it's not a bad time for him to move on.

they know they have lost - the problem that they then have is what do they do? What do they stand for? They will be in a minority - there is an outside chance that if things go really tits up they may not even be the official opposition. They have no currency when out of office. Their party would be out of office and so they could not even lobby for access to serving ministers so that access to prowess and donors is cut off. A Tory is only a Tory to become important and lobby for themselves.....running a country is a side event.

I am pretty sure there will be Ministers who will be happy to be ousted in the upcoming re-shuffle and none of them will have any qualms about their constituency fizzling away. For Wallace that outcome is best - he doesn't actually lose an election and in his mind thats a good thing.

 

[Brewster's millions]

You’re going to have to much better than that mate, Johnson’s gone so let’s just focus on the here and now and Sunak.

What personal interests does the UK sending Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine provide for Sunak?

What personal interests does the UK sending shadow storm to Ukraine provide Sunak?

Name one single thing that the UK provides Ukraine that is in Sunak’s personal interests. Just one.

He’ll come up with a nonsense argument, and then call you ignorant.

Classic distraction tactics.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Ben Wallace is off, standing down from defence at the next reshuffle, thought to be in September. Won't be standing at the next election.

Didn't get the NATO gig so throws his toys out his pram.
Good riddance.

 

[west didsblue]

That’s nonsense I’m afraid.

If domestic production is less than 100% of demand, then the pricing of domestically produced gas is always going to be related to global wholesale pricing. This is how commodity markets operate. Why would domestic gas and imported gas - which both end up in the same place - have completely different and unrelated pricing?

You’re imagining a situation where the government controls the supply side and sets the price of domestically-produced gas, which is nonsensical. That situation simply doesn’t exist, and it can’t exist unless the UK produces 100% of its own gas, which did happen when the last Labour government came to power, but certainly didn’t by the time it was voted out.

I also note that you’re (conveniently) ignoring the Energy Profits Levy, which the OBR estimates will raise £40bn over the next few years, through the higher taxation of gas producers.

The gas purchased from global supplies obviously has to purchased at the wholesale price, but if it chose to the government could exercise control over domestic supplies however much we import. They just chose not to and opted to stick with the current pricing model for energy. If they wanted to they could have made some emergency changes to the pricing model but they didn’t want to because they didn’t want to interfere with the private sector that produces and supplies the energy, and instead it was up to the consumer and taxpayer to fill the gap.

The levy you talk about was finally introduced after pressure from the opposition.

 

[west didsblue]

You’re going to have to much better than that mate, Johnson’s gone so let’s just focus on the here and now and Sunak.

What personal interests does the UK sending Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine provide for Sunak?

What personal interests does the UK sending shadow storm to Ukraine provide Sunak?

Name one single thing that the UK provides Ukraine that is in Sunak’s personal interests. Just one.

In his mind it makes him look strong and resolute and he hopes that people see him as that and are more likely to vote for him.

I’m absolutely delighted he’s doing it but I personally think he’s not doing it because he sees it as the right thing to do. At the end of the day none of that matters if we as a country are providing the support that’s needed for Ukraine to win the war.

 

[west didsblue]

He’ll come up with a nonsense argument, and then call you ignorant.

Classic distraction tactics.

You’re getting boring.

 

[bluethrunthru]

To all the Sunak lovers - who loved Truss and loved Johnson - your boy will be gone in the autumn when a coup will be launched at the Conference ------- the by elections this week added to his failure on his 5 pledges will seal his fate and the Tories will plot to be rid of him over the summer. Tories always gonna Tory.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

In his mind it makes him look strong and resolute and he hopes that people see him as that and are more likely to vote for him.

I’m absolutely delighted he’s doing it but I personally think he’s not doing it because he sees it as the right thing to do. At the end of the day none of that matters if we as a country are providing the support that’s needed for Ukraine to win the war.

It’s simple political expediency.
He sent tanks and missiles because everyone else was.
Who wants to be seen as the only Western European leader not to be supporting the plucky underdog against the might of the Russians ?
Even the Germans were dragging their feet over sending leopards but eventually they realised how it would look if they didn’t.

 

[west didsblue]

It’s simple political expediency.
He sent tanks and missiles because everyone else was.
Who wants to be seen as the only Western European leader not to be supporting the plucky underdog against the might of the Russians ?
Even the Germans were dragging their feet over sending leopards but eventually they realised how it would look if they didn’t.

Yes absolutely.

I find it bizarre that people will actually believe he’s doing it for the right reasons when he’s been part of a government for the last 4 years that has acted against the best interest of most of the population on numerous occasions.

But as I said earlier we’ve got to be thankful that the right thing to do for once coincides what’s in his best interests.