Rony Lopes

[franksinatra]

The problem is that just being a "squad player" is not the best for anyone involved when said "squad player" is 20 years old and developing. It isn't good for City, because being a 4th choice CB means minimal playing time and minimal growth, and it isn't good for Denayer because he needs to be playing every game to continue to develop into the player he can be.

This is where a B team is beneficial. In that scenario, you've got your young player playing professional football on a weekly basis but in the instance where you need them to play for the parent club, he's available immediately at any time. Until a B team system is in place, don't put much stock in City being able to play and develop youth at the rate you'd prefer. On the plus side, nearly all of the youth we re-signed this summer signed 5 year deals so we won't have to worry about a guy being down to 1 year left on his deal when he's right there in that window of uncertainty regarding his development.

There is no point arguing for a B team as that will never happen.

Before the signing of Otamendi it all pointed to plenty of game time for Denayer. Ample opportunities in Cups, against lesser sides and being introduced late into games. Demi is now getting older and could easily have taken a backward seat, besides when more experience is required, but how do you justify that after spending 27 million on a centre half?

You say that would not work as if the other model has proven a resounding success?

Young players going on loan, becoming disillusioned, running their contract down, doing well and being marginalised etc etc.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I said it on another thread, but the CFA is on a 10 yr program (2015-2025), where we will take one or two players and develop them until, 10 yrs from now, we become self sufficient, with one or two breaking into the squad every year, and an occasional star player to bolster the squad. This is a model that has created the current Barca squad, and also funds their start purchases. Bring players through, blood them, sell on the ones that don't make first team regulars and replace with new young global talent.

 

[ninjamonkey]

We are in transition, so it's a great time to also bring through a few kids. Could save us millions on replacing Nasri Navas, Clichy, Zaba etc.

We're not in transition, we're fully expected to challenge for all domestic trophies this year. Are you saying you'd rather see us weaken the squad in the short term in the hope of saving a few million in the future? I'd rather we spent the extra millions that we can afford to spend and compete for league titles and wait until we can produce the very best. The academy, and producing first team players from it is not the number 1 priority. Winning trophies is. Khaldoon said himself he wants to bring youth through but we will not compromise on the quality of the first team. They've got everything else right since the takeover, lets just trust they've got this right too rather than slate them for letting go an average player.

 

[Neville Kneville]

We're not in transition, we're fully expected to challenge for all domestic trophies this year. Are you saying you'd rather see us weaken the squad in the short term in the hope of saving a few million in the future? I'd rather we spent the extra millions that we can afford to spend and compete for league titles and wait until we can produce the very best. The academy, and producing first team players from it is not the number 1 priority. Winning trophies is. Khaldoon said himself he wants to bring youth through but we will not compromise on the quality of the first team. They've got everything else right since the takeover, lets just trust they've got this right too rather than slate them for letting go an average player.

We are producing the very best now. We are not going to produce many kids better than the best of these. If w can't find one or two out of this lot, it isn't going to happen at City.

And we are in transition. Sterling, DeBruyne, Delph, in & Dzeko Jovetic out along with 2 new cbs in the past year = transition. It wasn't even me that mentioned it, I wa replying, but it's right nontheless.

 

[Ray78]

I really hope so.

I get your doubts about whether any Academy player can or will ever make it into the first team but there isn't a fast track in making that happen in my opinion.

 

[franksinatra]

£9m.....is that right? If so, then that's fucking good business.

Is it? We have lost a 19 year old player for 9 million, who has had such a successful loan spell he has attracted the interest of a Champions league club.

If that is good business what do you think of our signing of Roberts who is not yet a regular for a struggling Fulham side and who cost 5.5 million (???).

 

[blueincy]

'I think Marcos needs to plays more in another club. He is a very good player. I am sure in the future he will be part of our club but for this year he must continue trying to play as much football as he can. Here he has a lot of competition with David (Silva) and Samir (Nasri) so it is better for him to go on loan.'


When asked to clarify that the move was just a loan, Pellegrini added: 'Yes, just for this season.

Who the fuck is in charge at the club for MP to say such shit?



Well done yet again Marwood, loan them out let their contracts run down while your fucking about meddling in first team business what has Champions league draws got to do with you? I give up with slagging this fuckwit it's like pissing in the wind..

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

That is exactly what is required. Anyone arguing blooding a kid in a crucial fixture is a risk has a valid argument. But a number of matches are finished at half time/60 minute mark. Give them some game time, see how they adapt. FFs we are not talking about kids dragged of the street. The likes of Rekik has won a title and played for his country, Denayer too. Lopes in the french Ligue 1.

We are doing these kids a disservice. Everytime we deny them an opportunity we are reinforcing the mantra that the kids at City do not get a chance. How can we argue that now?

Look at last season, the lack of fitness & confidence of Fernando, the shit form of Kolarov, Dzeko's lack of effort, Kompany injured & head gone, Nasri swanning around, Jovetic permanently crocked, Zaba playing like an old man, Caballero, etc. Meanwhile Jason Denayer is ypoty for Celtic. Our defenci is playing like Keystone cops v Moscow, he is marshalling a vastly inferior set of players at the San Siro, down to ten men. Kompany gets sent off for Belgium, instead of putting Alderwerald or Vertonghen at cb, the coach debuts Denayer, who is shouting & organising them, again marshalling a ten man back 4.

What does Pellegrini do pre season ? Train him as part of the back 4 for the new campaign ? No, he sticks him next to a 16 year old kid, v Real madrid & that's his chance.

Now most of those players who were so shit last season, are being rewarded with a fresh start & Denayer, who had a better season than all of them, has been fucked off.

I'll quote these together, Neville I see the point, but the fact remains Pelle's been backed with new first team players, and some of those who let him down are gone. The ones who have been given another chance have delivered so far, and I think Denayer needs to play every week, and he wouldn't get that here even if rotated. It may not be liked, but I think for one more season it's the right move.

to Frank, of course the argument has merit. However look at the number of times we were 2 up, then threw it away last season. I'm not saying this is why, but logically, wouldn't that put doubts in the manager's mind? So the next time he's 2-0 up, he goes to tried and tested as a safety mechanism, thus leaving the kid, if there is one by this point, on the bench. Now we go 3 up but the player who needs the rest is Silva, and we don't have a similar kid on the bench, so for the benefit of the team, an established pro has to come on.

Now, I'm not saying that's how it is, but hypothetically, the way our first team played last season, it's could be possible. It could be stubbornness, but then I don't see why Pelle would trust the likes of Isco at Malaga if it were so. I think he's under pressure, in his first season, he had a poor start and always had to play catch up. In his second, we struggled for top form and fell away in the winter/spring, and then had to protect our CL spot. By that point, we weren't even sure if he was staying, so he picked a team to do a job and I think, to partly send a statement to the men in charge over what was needed. There is a wider range of factors, that I think sometimes go unappreciated. If the first team deliver and sweep all before them this season, there may well be the confidence and opportunity to give some youngsters a go, later in the season, at least I hope so, as I think the club wants and needs us to win a title comfortably, not just get it done on a nail-biting final day, I think we need to make that step and stamp our authority on the league.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Is it? We have lost a 19 year old player for 9 million, who has had such a successful loan spell he has attracted the interest of a Champions league club.

with 12 months left on a contract he wasn't going to renew.So,yes,excellent business.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I get your doubts about whether any young Academy player can ever make it into the first team but there isn't a fast track into making it in making that happen in my opinion.

It wouldn't be a fast track. It would be natural at most clubs. Jason Denayer would get games this season for Barca & in that league, probably look like a worldbeater..

 

[Neville Kneville]

I'll quote these together, Neville I see the point, but the fact remains Pelle's been backed with new first team players, and some of those who let him down are gone. The ones who have been given another chance have delivered so far, and I think Denayer needs to play every week, and he wouldn't get that here even if rotated. It may not be liked, but I think for one more season it's the right move.

to Frank, of course the argument has merit. However look at the number of times we were 2 up, then threw it away last season. I'm not saying this is why, but logically, wouldn't that put doubts in the manager's mind? So the next time he's 2-0 up, he goes to tried and tested as a safety mechanism, thus leaving the kid, if there is one by this point, on the bench. Now we go 3 up but the player who needs the rest is Silva, and we don't have a similar kid on the bench, so for the benefit of the team, an established pro has to come on.

Now, I'm not saying that's how it is, but hypothetically, the way our first team played last season, it's could be possible. It could be stubbornness, but then I don't see why Pelle would trust the likes of Isco at Malaga if it were so. I think he's under pressure, in his first season, he had a poor start and always had to play catch up. In his second, we struggled for top form and fell away in the winter/spring, and then had to protect our CL spot. By that point, we weren't even sure if he was staying, so he picked a team to do a job and I think, to partly send a statement to the men in charge over what was needed. There is a wider range of factors, that I think sometimes go unappreciated. If the first team deliver and sweep all before them this season, there may well be the confidence and opportunity to give some youngsters a go, later in the season, at least I hope so, as I think the club wants and needs us to win a title comfortably, not just get it done on a nail-biting final day, I think we need to make that step and stamp our authority on the league.

The rags have done that many times wih kids in the squad.

Liverpool had an 18 year old cb/rb playing at left back at Arsenal the other night & he played a seriously good game. We have now got an untried kid as backup to Sagna there & we don't evn know what we would get from Zaba if fit. Denayer imo was potential cover for 3 positions, Cb, rb & def mid. If Guardiola, Ferguson, Clough, was in charge, Ithink they would see that & see him as an asset not a liability. This guy, who, don't get me wrong, is doing a great job imo with the senior players, hasn't got the vision when it comes to the kids.

 

[blueincy]

Rony Lopes ‏@Rony10Lopes 8h8 hours ago
Thank you @AS_Monaco for the wonderful welcome and for believing in me! I'm honoured and eager to work hard!!

The tweet says it all..

 

[malg]

Is it? We have lost a 19 year old player for 9 million, who has had such a successful loan spell he has attracted the interest of a Champions league club.

If that is good business what do you think of our signing of Roberts who is not yet a regular for a struggling Fulham side and who cost 5.5 million (???).

£9m for someone we weren't going to play? Yep, good business. Hey, 3 or 4 years down the line he might well go for a lot more, but that's because he's getting regular football, which he won't get here. As for Roberts, well only time will tell. I'm still happy that we're getting £9m for someone who doesn't get game time for us. Maybe this is the way ahead, we develop them then get a shit load of money. Unfortunately for some, football is a business. I'm sure Lopes is happy for the way we've handled him and furthered his career.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Denayer would struggle in Barcelona's set up.

I can't think of a player more perfectly suited to it. He is perfect for City too, apart from he's untried aerially vs Prem cfs. If I could guarantee Denayer aerially, I would be looking to train him up & play him now, a first choice in the Prem for City. He is the best 1v1 defender at the club & the best footballer out of all defenders.

 

[Bluewonder]

I can't think of a player more perfectly suited to it. He is perfect for City too, apart from he's untried aerially vs Prem cfs. If I could guarantee Denayer aerially, I would be looking to train him up & play him now, a first choice in the Prem for City. He is the best 1v1 defender at the club & the best footballer out of all defenders.

You overrate our youth players massively. Denayer is not the best footballing defender, or best 1 vs 1 defender at the club. The step up from SPL/ U21s footy to Champions League is absolutely huge. Denayer would be torn apart at the highest level.

I'm sure he'll be a very good defender in the future but these young players have a hell of a long way to go.

 

[franksinatra]

I'll quote these together, Neville I see the point, but the fact remains Pelle's been backed with new first team players, and some of those who let him down are gone. The ones who have been given another chance have delivered so far, and I think Denayer needs to play every week, and he wouldn't get that here even if rotated. It may not be liked, but I think for one more season it's the right move.

to Frank, of course the argument has merit. However look at the number of times we were 2 up, then threw it away last season. I'm not saying this is why, but logically, wouldn't that put doubts in the manager's mind? So the next time he's 2-0 up, he goes to tried and tested as a safety mechanism, thus leaving the kid, if there is one by this point, on the bench. Now we go 3 up but the player who needs the rest is Silva, and we don't have a similar kid on the bench, so for the benefit of the team, an established pro has to come on.

Now, I'm not saying that's how it is, but hypothetically, the way our first team played last season, it's could be possible. It could be stubbornness, but then I don't see why Pelle would trust the likes of Isco at Malaga if it were so. I think he's under pressure, in his first season, he had a poor start and always had to play catch up. In his second, we struggled for top form and fell away in the winter/spring, and then had to protect our CL spot. By that point, we weren't even sure if he was staying, so he picked a team to do a job and I think, to partly send a statement to the men in charge over what was needed. There is a wider range of factors, that I think sometimes go unappreciated. If the first team deliver and sweep all before them this season, there may well be the confidence and opportunity to give some youngsters a go, later in the season, at least I hope so, as I think the club wants and needs us to win a title comfortably, not just get it done on a nail-biting final day, I think we need to make that step and stamp our authority on the league.

Straight back at you. Your argument has a lot of merit and is an excellent counter-balance to mine and Neville's opinion.

I suppose it is a question of considering is there more to gain than lose? I take your point about Isco but was this more to do with the limitations of the budget at Malaga and if he had been in a city situation would he have stockpiled international players rather than given him a chance?

As well as the positive or seeing young players for me it makes financial and squad sense to introduce young players and by playing kids this can also limit risk in other areas.

It could be argued financially if we had trusted Denayer (as fourth choice) the otamendi money could have been used to buy a decent central midfielder. That in my opinion would have more significantly reduced the risk this year than stockpiling another centre half as I think it may prove our Achilles heel.

The 2-0 argument has some weight, specifically for a centre half, would you still think the same if 3-0, 4-0 or if a striker like Iheanacho was bloodied?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

The rags have done that many times wih kids in the squad.

Liverpool had an 18 year old cb/rb playing at left back at Arsenal the other night & he played a seriously good game. We have now got an untried kid as backup to Sagna there & we don't evn know what we would get from Zaba if fit. Denayer imo was potential cover for 3 positions, Cb, rb & def mid. If Guardiola, Ferguson, Clough, was in charge, Ithink they would see that & see him as an asset not a liability. This guy, who, don't get me wrong, is doing a great job imo with the senior players, hasn't got the vision when it comes to the kids.

well, you could be right. I think as we're developing, I think we are risk averse, and that can be seen across the club. Denayer might be a mistake, it might be the right move, we can only have our opinions and hope for the best, either way. Again though, Liverpool are in a slightly different position to us, and don't have the depth of quality we do. Equally though, what's to say the untried kid comes in and does a Bellerin, or something like that? Maybe the club feel it better to go that route and give Denayer regular football in the position they want him to play, at a CL club? It's a balancing act, but the club clearly want Denayer to play, they just want him to develop a bit more to takeover when he's absolutely ready. Maybe it's our club culture now, maybe it's just the reality of where we are as a club. We'll just have to see how it goes.

 

[Neville Kneville]

You overrate our youth players massively. Denayer is not the best footballing defender, or best 1 vs 1 defender at the club. The step up from SPL/ U21s footy to Champions League is absolutely huge. Denayer would be torn apart at the highest level.

I'm sure he'll be a very good defender in the future but these young players have a hell of a long way to go.

Denayer has played at that level.

Check out our defence ve Roma, & Moscow & get back to me. And give me a better footballer in the back 4.

 

[Bluewonder]

Denayer has played at that level.

Check out our defence ve Roma, & Moscow & get back to me. And give me a better footballer in the back 4.

He hasn't really. One friendly against France doesn't constitute the high intensity, elite-level competition our lads are so regularly involved in.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Straight back at you. Your argument has a lot of merit and is an excellent counter-balance to mine and Neville's opinion.

I suppose it is a question of considering is there more to gain than lose? I take your point about Isco but was this more to do with the limitations of the budget at Malaga and if he had been in a city situation would he have stockpiled international players rather than given him a chance?

As well as the positive or seeing young players for me it makes financial and squad sense to introduce young players and by playing kids this can also limit risk in other areas.

It could be argued financially if we had trusted Denayer (as fourth choice) the otamendi money could have been used to buy a decent central midfielder. That in my opinion would have more significantly reduced the risk this year than stockpiling another centre half as I think it may prove our Achilles heel.

The 2-0 argument has some weight, specifically for a centre half, would you still think the same if 3-0, 4-0 or if a striker like Iheanacho was bloodied?

Well, we could see tomorrow regarding Kelechi, it was just a hypothetical scenario to illustrate the unpredictability and perhaps risk averse nature the manager has when he has targets and is always under such scrutiny. Maybe you're right about Malaga and resources, but perhaps it's also to do with the lack of expectation compared to us, yes Malaga had money but Pelle always had the Barca/Real card to play, which he can't here. I think it's that scrutiny and job pressure which is playing a significant role, but ultimately if we want to see kids in the manner suggested, the first team has to earn the trust of the boss by beating teams as expected and allowing him the opportunity.

It will be interesting tomorrow, as the first home game we're expected to win, what team he picks and how he makes his subs. I hope we fix last season and go and do our business, and maybe then the likes of Kelechi will get time.