Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Coatigan]

Being able to live in a democracy, free of fear of Putin and his cronies.

Lovely notion. This war, imo, will not end in that outcome, one way or the other. Bloody hope that is wrong, obviously. Can't see otherwise though.

 

[mosssideblue]

One is defensive the other is offensive , big difference

Cannot agree with that Kaz. Both can be either

 

[mosssideblue]

Lovely notion. This war, imo, will not end in that outcome, one way or the other. Bloody hope that is wrong, obviously. Can't see otherwise though.

It will. It may take years, but it will

 

[kaz7]

Cannot agree with that Kaz. Both can be either

In terms of starting ww3 they are very different

 

[kaz7]

'Indians, Africans and Middle Easterners, go to ANOTHER border'

Nigerian student Alexander Somto Orah, 25, spent four days trying to escape Ukraine after 'racist' guards at Polish boundary said no to 'Indians, Africans and Middle Easterners'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Guessing these were also some of those "dark skin men" trying to run away from the war, correct?

Why are you trying to reignite something from two weeks ago ? Especially since i have seen plenty getting out , swivel

 

[Coatigan]

It will. It may take years, but it will

Don't think anyone can really predict that. History suggests otherwise. It has already Been 30+ years. This takes it backwards, and will slow it down rather than launch it forwards.

It will drag on. The tragedy in it is, the suffering and time it takes is so bloody disproportionate to the miniscule shift in 'bargaining position'.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Ukraine has an incredibly bright future, that's one of the reasons Putin had to invade it.

Zelensky & co. were pushing out the old soviet era oligarchs and moving them towards a functional democracy at which point their massive wealth of natural resources would start to get exploited and all the money with it.

We've all seen over the last fortnight how closely Russians view Ukrainians - the "little brother" becoming the richest country in the region would have been devastating for Putin.

Agreed - Last think he wanted was more evidence (see transformation of baltic states alone) on his door step of what a fair, prospering and functioning democracy looks like - although not perfect, it puts his autocratic system of nepotism and exploitation of its citizens to shame.

He will also have been fully aware that as soon as the EU had green lighted entry into the Union they will have been eligible for vast amounts of subsidies to improve their infrastructure and the cultural integration into 'Western' style life would have been completed for good.

Was drinking with a Ukrainian friend yesterday and he said that its so painful as he felt they were so close to opening a brighter new chapter away from the clutches and shadow of Russia.

 

[mosssideblue]

In terms of starting ww3 they are very different

Maybe, maybe not.

Putin has spouted several times that what we (NATO) have already done is tantamount to joining Ukraine

 

[mosssideblue]

Don't think anyone can really predict that. History suggests otherwise. It has already Been 30+ years. This takes it backwards, and will slow it down rather than launch it forwards.

It will drag on. The tragedy in it is, the suffering and time it takes is so bloody disproportionate to the miniscule shift in 'bargaining position'.

Yet you feel able to predict the outcome.
Not saying it will be immediate, but the long term benefits are there to be seen

 

[kaz7]

Maybe, maybe not.

Putin has spouted several times that what we (NATO) have already done is tantamount to joining Ukraine

He is a **** though ;)