Russian invasion of Ukraine

[hello]

What constraints?

Genuinely I'm interested in knowing from you and @cleavers as you both seem to have been involved, what were the constraints that stopped us from providing more? Why couldn't we have sent them some Rapier AA systems or starstreak?

I am off to kip as at work at 06:00 I’ll try to reply with a relatively coherent response either here or pm tomorrow. Good night

 

[sniff]

The incredible entitlement of some people in this country never ceases to amaze me.

We signed a fucking treaty to protect Ukraine, which we reneged on, and in return sent a few missile launchers, and you seem to think that means they just have to sit down and shut up and pretend we're their saviours?

Poroshenko is, aside from being the ex-president of Ukraine who the UK government didn't help when Russia invaded Crimea, a billionaire. He could have flown out of town on his private jet and watched all this from the sidelines, but is instead staying put, defending his country.

And some fucking nobody thinks he should not have an opinion on Boris Johnson because he got sent some ATGM 8 years too late.

Entitlement ? where is my sense of entitlement in that post. Its clearly me saying that this is not the time. You think he would be worried about the job at hand. You know, The bit about the Survival of his country and its people ? would that not be the pertinent point right now. Its a non debate, we all know the comment was wrong. You seem very angry about something, im not sure what it is though. Maybe the massive misunderstanding of the Budapest Memorandum - it was not a mutual protection pact - It was actually signed by Russian and China as well as a few other and it was to address nuclear proliferation - we then allowed them to become what they called an "Enhanced opportunity partner or NATO" that allowed them to be trained and access the NATO systems - As far as i can see that Partner ship has been more than met.

So once again. My only point was. Whilst millions are fleeing, and countless others trapped. Is this petty argument really helping any of the people from Ukraine. Or more to the point, the people who are dying at this very moment. So you stick with the Political point scoring and the rest can concern themselves with what is happening on a human level. The Budapest Memorandum is VOID - The NATO agreement is clearly doing everything they offered. Or do you think the country are dealing with this on their own. No one is pretending to be the Savior of Ukraine - They are however the reason they are doing so well, You would do well to recognize that point

No sense of Entitlement at all, Just a point to actually address the issue at hand - Or we could go on and cry about Bexit again. You seem very confused and unclear on the non existent Mutual protection plan. but just to clear it up. this is what it agreed at the time

The agreement will last for 15 years. Areas it covers include sharing of information on potential threats, participation in joint exercises, training of Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) personnel and cooperation in the field of military equipment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-relationship-with-ukraine-strengthened-by-defence-

agreement

References included so you do not need to foam at your mouth in faux liberal rage. The Truth is, you have no idea what support they are getting. But the way they are still functioning and stalling the Russian army is by no means a coincidence. Its not a fluke and not the sole achievement of the Ukrainian army. Its very common in times of war to broadcast to the globe what you are doing. Whilst we are at it, should we send Putin a list of all the equipment NATO have in the country and the locations. In your quest to be right you have forgotten the fundamental's of the situation.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

One of the front line troops is a young British lad, he’s a medic now but stood with a gun and Union Jack on his uniform. He said when he heard what was happening in Ukraine he felt he had to go and help...
I’m amazed that he just went on his motorbike a really brave man.

 

[Slipper One]

No, unlike the UK government, I wasn't in a position to help contribute to protecting Ukraine's sovereignty or civilians by adequately arming them before the invasion.

I'm doing what I can now though.

Please enlighten us all, pray tell what that might be.


* You’re going to Ukraine to train and fight alongside Ukrainian soldiers?

* Taking in a Ukrainian family?

* Going to Poland or other neighbouring countries to volunteer your time helping refugees?

* Transporting donations to the bordering countries?

* Criticizing every move made by the UK government?

 

[Slipper One]

By the way, they've been at war for 8 years and we've only just started arming them, despite signing a treaty to protect their sovereignty. Our contributions are actually nothing special at this point, we win points for being among the first to send them but the amounts are being matched. They've been sent over 25,000 ATGM and we sent 4,000.

Aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Right now, the Ukrainians are desperate and will be grateful for all the help they get, but there will be plenty of time for reflecting on how their pleas for help were ignored for years and years, and how many died because of it. There'll also be plenty of time devoted to who helped them when they fled from their homes and who had them stuck in a tent shanty town in Calais for months.

It really doesn’t matter what the government does, good, bad or indifferent, you’ll find something negative to comment on.

You are very quick to criticize and after-time, but short on realistic and practical solutions to the problems.

I can’t imagine what life is like in your angry ‘glass half empty’ world.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I'm sure most people who sign up to fight in Ukraine are doing it for the right reasons, but this is quite an interesting account of the sort of people who sign up to play war.



The person who shared it on Twitter is a journalist who works with a friend of mine for what it's worth.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Entitlement ? where is my sense of entitlement in that post. Its clearly me saying that this is not the time. You think he would be worried about the job at hand. You know, The bit about the Survival of his country and its people ? would that not be the pertinent point right now. Its a non debate, we all know the comment was wrong. You seem very angry about something, im not sure what it is though. Maybe the massive misunderstanding of the Budapest Memorandum - it was not a mutual protection pact - It was actually signed by Russian and China as well as a few other and it was to address nuclear proliferation - we then allowed them to become what they called an "Enhanced opportunity partner or NATO" that allowed them to be trained and access the NATO systems - As far as i can see that Partner ship has been more than met.

So once again. My only point was. Whilst millions are fleeing, and countless others trapped. Is this petty argument really helping any of the people from Ukraine. Or more to the point, the people who are dying at this very moment. So you stick with the Political point scoring and the rest can concern themselves with what is happening on a human level. The Budapest Memorandum is VOID - The NATO agreement is clearly doing everything they offered. Or do you think the country are dealing with this on their own. No one is pretending to be the Savior of Ukraine - They are however the reason they are doing so well, You would do well to recognize that point

No sense of Entitlement at all, Just a point to actually address the issue at hand - Or we could go on and cry about Bexit again. You seem very confused and unclear on the non existent Mutual protection plan. but just to clear it up. this is what it agreed at the time

The agreement will last for 15 years. Areas it covers include sharing of information on potential threats, participation in joint exercises, training of Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) personnel and cooperation in the field of military equipment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-relationship-with-ukraine-strengthened-by-defence-

agreement

References included so you do not need to foam at your mouth in faux liberal rage. The Truth is, you have no idea what support they are getting. But the way they are still functioning and stalling the Russian army is by no means a coincidence. Its not a fluke and not the sole achievement of the Ukrainian army. Its very common in times of war to broadcast to the globe what you are doing. Whilst we are at it, should we send Putin a list of all the equipment NATO have in the country and the locations. In your quest to be right you have forgotten the fundamental's of the situation.

Wow! I've seem some responses on this forum over the years but that is top drawer.

 

[blueinsa]

Please enlighten us all, pray tell what that might be.


* You’re going to Ukraine to train and fight alongside Ukrainian soldiers?

* Taking in a Ukrainian family?

* Going to Poland or other neighbouring countries to volunteer your time helping refugees?

* Transporting donations to the bordering countries?

* Criticizing every move made by the UK government?

Post Brexit and covid, we now have the exact same posters who have moved onto being military and diplomacy experts who specialise in East European affairs.

Got to love this place and it at least a allows them to maintain their only consistent which is blame the UK.

 

[BlueAnorak]

That was David Cameron who sent in British troops to train them up not Johnson. Previous poster was calling out Johnson for his crass comparisons with Brexit.

Nobody doubts the British army have made a significant difference to the combat readiness of the Ukrainian army over this time, just no need to insult the gravity of the situation the people of Ukraine are enduring and suffering through with a political line from a cheap Christmas cracker.

And the NLAWs?

 

[BobKowalski]

Entitlement ? where is my sense of entitlement in that post. Its clearly me saying that this is not the time. You think he would be worried about the job at hand. You know, The bit about the Survival of his country and its people ? would that not be the pertinent point right now. Its a non debate, we all know the comment was wrong. You seem very angry about something, im not sure what it is though. Maybe the massive misunderstanding of the Budapest Memorandum - it was not a mutual protection pact - It was actually signed by Russian and China as well as a few other and it was to address nuclear proliferation - we then allowed them to become what they called an "Enhanced opportunity partner or NATO" that allowed them to be trained and access the NATO systems - As far as i can see that Partner ship has been more than met.

So once again. My only point was. Whilst millions are fleeing, and countless others trapped. Is this petty argument really helping any of the people from Ukraine. Or more to the point, the people who are dying at this very moment. So you stick with the Political point scoring and the rest can concern themselves with what is happening on a human level. The Budapest Memorandum is VOID - The NATO agreement is clearly doing everything they offered. Or do you think the country are dealing with this on their own. No one is pretending to be the Savior of Ukraine - They are however the reason they are doing so well, You would do well to recognize that point

No sense of Entitlement at all, Just a point to actually address the issue at hand - Or we could go on and cry about Bexit again. You seem very confused and unclear on the non existent Mutual protection plan. but just to clear it up. this is what it agreed at the time

The agreement will last for 15 years. Areas it covers include sharing of information on potential threats, participation in joint exercises, training of Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) personnel and cooperation in the field of military equipment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-relationship-with-ukraine-strengthened-by-defence-

agreement

References included so you do not need to foam at your mouth in faux liberal rage. The Truth is, you have no idea what support they are getting. But the way they are still functioning and stalling the Russian army is by no means a coincidence. Its not a fluke and not the sole achievement of the Ukrainian army. Its very common in times of war to broadcast to the globe what you are doing. Whilst we are at it, should we send Putin a list of all the equipment NATO have in the country and the locations. In your quest to be right you have forgotten the fundamental's of the situation.

You wanted to know if the ex-Pres of Ukraine was sending UK weapons back because he told Johnson to shut his gob. You then said the ex-Pres was being petty, which, given the circumstances the Ukrainians find themselves in, came across as a wee bit entitled.