Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Protein Junkie]

I actually think it's quite important a peace keeping force doesn't get involved.

It's important for Ukraine, and it's important for the future of Russia. If the UN or Nato puts troops on the ground and beats Russia then even if Nuclear war didn't break out, it would give Putin an excuse for losing and probably keep him in power to come back in 5 years time, it would probably make China and Iran nervous and degrade those relationships. As for Ukraine, they're currently the most popualr country in the world and being advanced into the EU and other groups is the best thing for their long term future - if Brits and Germans and French and Italian boys go over there to get killed it will start eroding that and resentment to the war will inevitably get directed at the country it's in.

Also - really good for the future if a nuclear power can be made to lose a war without using nuclear weapons.

The best way for this to end is for the Ukrainians to win it themselves, and the best thing the rest of the world can do is arm them to the teeth. More ATGMs, more basic infantry gear, more drones and missiles for those drones, better air defences, aircraft, artillery.

Agree with this.
No doubt Putin will “achieve” his objectives regardless of reality.
The aftermath when it arrives intrigues me no end.
Will Russia become a long time pariah state, will they change course through an overthrow and does it/will it change when Putin dies ?

 

[BlueMoonday]

Yes it is. The Germans and French in particular are doing little, mainly to protect their economies.

Herr Merkel made Germany reliant on Russia for energy and fuel.

Now politicians are dressing up this disaster by pushing for "green initiatives" using climate change as an excuse to move away from her balls up.

Germany has sent circa £30bn to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine.

 

[domalino]

Contains Graphic Footage.

Civilian drone nerds making a big difference with their eyes in the skies.

April 7, 2022 Russia-Ukraine news

A high-stakes NATO foreign ministers meeting kicked off in Brussels Wednesday, as US officials warn that Russia's war in Ukraine could be entering a protracted phase. Follow here for live news updates.

www.google.com

The technology available now is amazing, and the difference that small, relatively cheap items make.


They have these phone attachments on the bulletproof plate carriers, and you can just swing it down and get live feed from the drone up above, giving you an instant view of the enemy positions, your team are marked with beacons so you can see them. You can use that to work out the range of engagement, give coordinates to artillery, or plan an ambush or escape route.

All available in night vision or IR if the drone has the right camera. This is the kind of stuff that Russia just doesn't equip it soldiers with, and gives an incredible, almost overwhelming advantage on the battlefield. There was an interview with some Ukrainian soldiers who'd gotten IR scopes early on in the war and they said night time combat was like picking off targets at a range, the Russians just can't see them and don't know they're in full view.

If we can get enough of this small high tech stuff to the Ukrainian front lines it's so much more worthwhile than the same amoutn of money spent on a tank or a Mig.

 

[KS55]

Agree with this.
No doubt Putin will “achieve” his objectives regardless of reality.
The aftermath when it arrives intrigues me no end.
Will Russia become a long time pariah state, will they change course through an overthrow and does it/will it change when Putin dies ?

Impenetrable at the minute, but it cannot be business as usual after this. We are now on renewed notice that Russia will do anything to get its way.
We should never have forgotten that.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

Yes it is. The Germans and French in particular are doing little, mainly to protect their economies.

No strictly to do with the EU but I work for a large German specialty chemicals company and I was disgusted that up until yesterday they were doing everything they could to maintain their business with Russia and Belarus. Pre war they shipped from Lübeck to St Petersburg but they have been sending products by truck via the far North of Finland as the Lübeck route is closed.

We had an announcement from our parent company yesterday saying that no division in the group will do any business with these countries. Shamefully late.

 

[domalino]

No strictly to do with the EU but I work for a large German specialty chemicals company and I was disgusted that up until yesterday they were doing everything they could to maintain their business with Russia and Belarus. Pre war they shipped from Lübeck to St Petersburg but they have been sending products by truck via the far North of Finland as the Lübeck route is closed.

We had an announcement from our parent company yesterday saying that no division in the group will do any business with these countries. Shamefully late.

What changed?

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

What changed?

The killings in Bucha.

Disgusting.

 

[metalblue]

Anyone think that it’s gone past sanctions and there should be a UN peace keeping force now in Ukraine to drive the Russians back to Crimea and the Russian border. The longer this is prolonged the more people are executed daily by the Russian army, we over estimated them as a military power which has given them a window of opportunity to destroy a country whilst the west slowly wakes up to going on. If it’s not boots on the ground at least give the a Ukrainians some cruise missiles and more drones to send the Russians into retreat in the East of the country. If we don’t they will console what they have and probably come back in 10 years time to kill more people.

A UN peacekeeping force needs to be authorised by the UNSC, and Russia wields its veto there so whilst russia remains a permanent member of the UNSC it’s a non starter. That’s before you get into the complexities of a UN force in a war being waged between two sovereign states - I can only think of occasions where the UN has used peacekeepers in civil conflicts.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Herr Merkel made Germany reliant on Russia for energy and fuel.

Now politicians are dressing up this disaster by pushing for "green initiatives" using climate change as an excuse to move away from her balls up.

Germany has sent circa £30bn to Russia since the invasion of Ukraine.

The reality for Germany is they have none of their own fossil fuels so they will always be reliant on someone and the choice is very limited. This basic geography is what eventually lost them WW2 as they ran out of oil and failed to capture the Russian oil fields.

Its easy for us to say Germany should stop buying Russian gas / oil but if they do they will be buying it from the suppliers we use and our energy bills we jump even higher.

 

[Protein Junkie]

Impenetrable at the minute, but it cannot be business as usual after this. We are now on renewed notice that Russia will do anything to get its way.
We should never have forgotten that.

And the Iron Curtain goes back up except this time a huge chunk of Eastern Europe will be on the other side of the wall.