Russian invasion of Ukraine

[AlgarveBlu]

Obviously not posting,but there is pictures......its fuckin awful.

Slava Ukraini.

I don't have the stomach anymore to look at those images but it's a poignant reminder of what the future holds for the hundreds of thousands of Ukranian civilians and soldiers that have had to bare witness to these atrocities. Many will spend the rest of their lives with mental disorders that will need ongoing counselling when this is over but ultimately I suspect will end up finding solace in booze or worse. All this for one nonces ego - unfuckingbelievable!

 

[grunge]

Almost none of what you mention is due to Brexit. It is about France mainly reneging on agreements under the Brexit agreement to use these things as bargaining chips re Ireland. There is no evidence that UK would have dealt better with the current crises had we stayed in the EU.
BREXIT May have a lot to answer for, but don’t lump all problems into a convenient portmanteau.

Not to derail the thread more,

Im not lumping all problems at the feet of Brexit, just pointing out that we and the EU are weaker because of it, the safety nets we provided each other are gone.

Would these shared systems have been broken up if Brexit hadn't happened? If Brexit hadn't happened there wouldn't have been any tit for tat shenanigans going on etc.etc.

As for weathering it better in or out of the EU, there are plenty of economic experts out there laying the fact we are clearly worse off than most EU countries squarely at the feet of brexit. If we had managed to stay in the single market and not economically sanction ourselves then maybe that would be different

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I believe as we're mostly NATO then militarily we will be sharing, but its a fact we dropped out of the centralised system, that has weakened us both as there is now a level of red tape that wasn't there before.

As for the Dutch, Italian and Germans point you actually proving the point being made and just don't seem to see it. the UK being in that shared system would make the EU stronger as we would be sharing gas supplies, they have the capacity to store it which we dont, we have the supplies that they dont. in the shared system we would have been piping the large glut of gas we had over summer into there storage areas for distribution where needed in winter. including to us as we dont have the storage we need anymore and cant produce enough to supply our own needs in real time. ( because of being in that shared system we closed down the storage units as they were not needed anymore ).

there really is no denying it, Brexit made us, and the EU weaker than less capable of handling systemic shocks like this than we could together.

It completely stands to reason. Yet another example of the utter madness that is Brexit.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Almost none of what you mention is due to Brexit. It is about France mainly reneging on agreements under the Brexit agreement to use these things as bargaining chips re Ireland.

Errr….

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Not to derail the thread more, Would these shared systems have been broken up if Brexit hadn't happened? If Brexit hadn't happned there wouldn't have been any tit for tat shenanigans going on etc.etc.

As for weathering it better in or out of the EU, there are plenty of economic experts out there laying the fact we are clearly worse off than most EU coutries squarely at the feet of brexit. If we had managed to stay in the single market and not economically sanction ourselves then maybe that would be different

This is what so many people conspicuously fail to grasp. By opening Pandora‘s box we have unleashed forces that could not be foreseen and cannot be contained.

 

[KS55]

I believe as we're mostly NATO then militarily we will be sharing, but its a fact we dropped out of the centralised system, that has weakened us both as there is now a level of red tape that wasn't there before.

As for the Dutch, Italian and Germans point you actually proving the point being made and just don't seem to see it. the UK being in that shared system would make the EU stronger as we would be sharing gas supplies, they have the capacity to store it which we dont, we have the supplies that they dont. in the shared system we would have been piping the large glut of gas we had over summer into there storage areas for distribution where needed in winter. including to us as we dont have the storage we need anymore and cant produce enough to supply our own needs in real time. ( because of being in that shared system we closed down the storage units as they were not needed anymore ).

there really is no denying it, Brexit made us, and the EU weaker than less capable of handling systemic shocks like this than we could together.

The French have realised that the EU is powerless to deal with energy and security on a pan European basis and have called a meeting, currently dubbed European Political Forum, which is truly pan European. They are attempting to make up for EU narrowness. The need for it is nowt to do with Brexit.

 

[Scottyboi]

Seeing that convoy blown to bits invokes anger, fucking butcher them Russian dogs every last one that chooses to stay and fight in Ukraine.

Swear I'm lucky to not have met any Russian sympathisers irl it's all the online shithouse dogs.

 

[dickie davies]

There really is no denying it, Brexit made us, and the EU weaker than less capable of handling systemic shocks like this than we could together.

My one and only comment on Brexit in this thread
It is a widely held belief in Europe that Angela Merkel is equally responsible for Brexit as she wouldn't concede on a couple of EU reforms
If she'd allowed Cameron a small win then there would have been no Brexit

 

[dickie davies]

They're advancing towards moscow.

For the parade and speech

 

[grunge]

The French have realised that the EU is powerless to deal with energy and security on a pan European basis and have called a meeting, currently dubbed European Political Forum, which is truly pan European. They are attempting to make up for EU narrowness. The need for it is nowt to do with Brexit.

well yeah, the Russians cutting off the main supply line of gas the EU uses is the issue at hand. Germany killing all there nuclear reactors and relying on France's excess of nuclear power was also a massive mistake.

The UK being in the shared system wouldn't have fixed that. but it would have alleviated it a bit for both us and them. the EU may have been able to get the gas storage to 90% rather than 80% for example. EU announcing there storage getting to 80% resulted in gas prices dropping significantly. imagine if that was 90%.

The UK will run out of gas this winter, (I have no doubt about it and I've even bought a camper stove to cook with when it happens). we don't have supplies or storage for our needs in winter. if we were still part of that shared system the load is shared. we, and the northern EU countries may still run out in winter but we'd have been in a better place due to the EU storage capacity than we are now. At least we would have been hooked into the shared electric grid etc as when we run out of gas, our electricity is following suit ( rolling power cuts ) as lots of our power stations are gas powered.