Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Kompany Car]

Bit of an option piece on the thoughts of the German public regarding the supply of main battle tanks to Ukraine.

Scholz’s caution over tanks for Ukraine echoed on Berlin streets

German chancellor’s hesitation about sending Leopard 2 vehicles finds sympathy among public

www.theguardian.com

Broadly ties up with what @KS55 posted.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Germany’s history provides background to their apparent foot dragging in the supply of arms.
1. Germany, as the aggressor, was responsible (directly or indirectly) for millions of Russian deaths in two world wars and this still lies heavy on their national conscience.
2. A large slice of the German population was brought up along soviet lines in DDR. That culture will take at least a generation to change.
3. Ostpolitik was German’s most important foreign policy for 50 years. That led to a trading relationship with Russia that was important for both countries, principally, but not exclusively, based around the energy sector.
The upshot of these factors is to make German military support for Ukraine a difficult political balancing act. A recent survey showed that 30% of Germans believe that NATO was wholly or partly to blame for the invasion; that is, they accept that Russia genuinely felt under pressure from NATO’s activities in former client states.
In discussing Germany’s contributions to Ukraine, it is worth bearing in mind their sensibilities on their now broken relationship with Russia.

Not quite the actuallity
1. Russia mobilised first in WW1 and they were preparing to attack Austro-Hungary (the fact AH invaded first is neither here nor there). Germany declared war to support AH.
2. In WW2, Russia expected a war and was planning to attack Germany - but not until late 1942 when it's army reforms in light of the Finish winter war were complete.

You're bang on about the mental hang-ups of the Germans as a result of their defeat in WW2 mind. 2 mega failures in a row (WW1 and WW2), the massive damage to Germany from allied bombing, the major German military casualtiess, the shame of racial massacres and Russian actions in Germany at the end of the war are embedded in their psyche.

 

[CTID1977]

 

[JASR]

But your bang on about their mental hang ups, lets hope the russians one day go through a truth and reconciliation process but I have my doubts.

Among many instances of the pre-war crimes committed by Russia against the small subpart of Ukraine, Crimea:

The Holodomor - famine and death caused by the forced removal of food stocks (Sounds familiar...).

The killing or forced emigration of 50% of the Crimean Tartar population between 1917-1933 (Sounds familiar...)

The forced expulsion to the eastern Soviet republics, of the remaining Crimean Tartars after the Soviet re-occupation of Crimea after pushing out the Nazi's in 1944 WW2 (sounds familar...).

These actions led to the Russification of Crimea, which is why they claim it's 'Russian'

 

[kaz7]

Wondered where kay burley was , in ukraine talking to Zelensky , really good interview if interested , be out there somewhere or on catch up

 

[BlueAnorak]

Missle Strikes: https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...es-commit-to-tanks?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

[meltonblue]

Germany’s history provides background to their apparent foot dragging in the supply of arms.
1. Germany, as the aggressor, was responsible (directly or indirectly) for millions of Russian deaths in two world wars and this still lies heavy on their national conscience.
2. A large slice of the German population was brought up along soviet lines in DDR. That culture will take at least a generation to change.
3. Ostpolitik was German’s most important foreign policy for 50 years. That led to a trading relationship with Russia that was important for both countries, principally, but not exclusively, based around the energy sector.
The upshot of these factors is to make German military support for Ukraine a difficult political balancing act. A recent survey showed that 30% of Germans believe that NATO was wholly or partly to blame for the invasion; that is, they accept that Russia genuinely felt under pressure from NATO’s activities in former client states.
In discussing Germany’s contributions to Ukraine, it is worth bearing in mind their sensibilities on their now broken relationship with Russia.

It’s also worth mentioning that your point one there extends to wanting to be pacifist wherever possible in general. One thing they deserve a lot of credit for is how many displaced refugees they’ve taken in, the support needed isn’t just military.

 

[kaz7]

Wont be there this year ?

 

[Gabriel]

 

[Gabriel]