Russian invasion of Ukraine

[CTID1977]

 

[arbabarshad]

Wonder if repeat visits of Kyiv from western
Leaders / officials are helping Putin’s narrative in Russia that they’re fighting the war of existence against the west rather than just Ukraine.

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Ukrainian forces been shelling Zaitseve overnight.
There is 2 very close together,it's the one just Southeast of Bakhmut,NOT the one just North of Horlivka.

Slava Ukraini.

 

[CTID1977]

 

[Scottyboi]

Wonder if repeat visits of Kyiv from western
Leaders / officials are helping Putin’s narrative in Russia that they’re fighting the war of existence against the west rather than just Ukraine.

It ain't helping shit for pootin, he just had the US president on his door step saying he will keep supporting Ukraine.
And there was fuck all he could do about it, made him look weak to his fetal alcohol syndrome serfs.

 

[RobMCFC]

I think you grossly underestimate the impact this has had on relations between Russia and Western Europe, both on a geopolitical and micro level.

I think it is incumbent upon those of us who see the logic and potential existential nature of our resistance to Russian aggression to not allow an appeasement mindset to take root. I think Russia’s SM influence has waned considerably in the last twelve months, which will help in that regard.

I can’t see Russia having the same energy hold over Western Europe ever again. I would say the prospects of that within the next generation are virtually nil.

Russians as individuals will be singled out going forward, both in terms of restrictions around how they allocate and spend their wealth, and how they are treated when they are tourists. I think they will receive a much more hostile reception when they holiday elsewhere, for example.

You also assume Russia can sustain severe losses indefinitely but this is wrong. There will come a point, just like the US in Vietnam, where those losses come at too high a political cost. They cannot keep losing 1,000 a day indefinitely and simply shrug it off. The maths don’t lie.

Words like ‘never’ in terms of reparations are easy to throw around, but I don’t see how you can discount that possibility in its entirety. Russia should and will pay one way or another. I consider using the seized assets of the money stolen by the Oligarchs on Ukrainian infrastructure is a form of reparation.

I think there is a tendency for some to assume that certain things are immutable, and your recent posts on this thread suggest you are one of them, but history teaches us again and again that things can change on a fundamental level when events take over. This principle is the reason the Romanovs were shot in a basement and why the US is no longer a colony of the UK, or even in the Commonwealth.

It’s the same attitude that gave Putin the confidence and conviction to invade a year ago. The notion that things would just carry on in the same vein and Western Europe would just take it on the chin as they had done previously. He was wrong because things don’t always stay the same, irrespective - sometimes the camel’s back gets broken, just like with the Romanovs or the Declaration of Independence. It’s the same attitude that most football journalists displayed in the run in to 2012, assuming United would finish the job off because that just they way things were and because they always had previously.

Things can and do change, because some events cause a seismic shift in the landscape.

Assuming things will simply revert to broadly how they were before ignores the chaotic nature of the universe we live in. I believe this war has fundamentally changed the geopolitical landscape and assuming Russia will be allowed to exploit and wield the same amount of power over Western Europe in a decade is overly simplistic wholly wrong.

Things don’t always go back to what they were and in this instance too much disruption has occurred for that to happen. I think the nature of the relationship between Russia (and its people) and the rest of Europe has fundamentally changed for the next generation (at least) as a result of this invasion and how the subsequent conflict has been prosecuted - and the assumptions you make around Russian tentacles reasserting themselves will not happen.

You say Russia will be wiser, but appear to assume Western Europe will not, but nothing in the course of the last twelve months would suggest the Russian state was capable of displaying any form of wisdom. Quite the opposite.

Well said and pretty much what I think (FWIW).

I was always amazed how much people despised Germans 40, 50, 60 or more years after the end of WWII.
I think my generation (I'm 54) sees Germany (and Japan) as modern westernised counties very much in sync with our own lives and ideas (with much better transport systems, obviously). I sometimes looked at the older generation and couldn't understand why they couldn't let it go.

However, I'm sure most people aged 30 and over will never trust Russia for the rest of their lives - see the parallels with the older generation now?

Younger people, who will be the politicians of the future, will also have the benefit of history, and will know to be cautious in dealing with Russia 30 or more years from now.

 

[grunge]

Oh I agree Idaho.

The problem is many don't see (or are blind to) the Ukraine casualty side of this. The Russians may have issues and have made many mistakes, but are still a formidable force to be fighting.

I don’t think most are blind to Ukrainian losses in this, not at all. I do think a lot have forgotten that Russia are basically ethnically cleansing areas they occupy tho. If Ukraine fight some die and they have a chance of keeping their country and saving hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives. If they give up arms then Russia run rampant and continue their ethnic cleanse across the whole country.

And that’s not taking into consideration that Putin has said time and time again he wants to unify Europe entirely.

winning this in Ukraine is best for Ukraine and best for the world.

 

[CTID1977]

 

[ultimateharold]

Wonder if repeat visits of Kyiv from western
Leaders / officials are helping Putin’s narrative in Russia that they’re fighting the war of existence against the west rather than just Ukraine.

Probably, but that ship had long sailed anyway. We can see from the street interviews that those who believe this would be unwilling to change their minds even if taken for a walk around Bucha themselves.

 

[SPIDERBOY]

Oh I agree Idaho.

The problem is many don't see (or are blind to) the Ukraine casualty side of this. The Russians may have issues and have made many mistakes, but are still a formidable force to be fighting.

Ukraine will of taken a considerable amount of losses mate,there is no doubt about that.......I said it very early on in the thread "Ukraine will not back down".
I think some on here thought I may be a bit mental,when I posted it.
There is a phrase that's been going since this invasion started,you may of seen it....."If Russia stops fighting,there is no war....If Ukraine stops fighting,there is no Ukraine".
THEY WILL NOT STOP.

Slava Ukraini.