Russian invasion of Ukraine

[BlueAnorak]

All very valid points. If history teaches us anything it’s the Russians are nothing but stubborn, it took someone different like Gorbachev to get them out of the Afghanistan mire.

Fortunately we know how Putin is cut from that same cloth and is a great strategist otherwise we might be forgiven for thinking he is a stubborn sadistic nonce **** who would rather see everyone of his mobilised forces meet their maker on Ukrainian soil than figure a way out of the mess he alone created.

The trade off of 2m+ dead to enslave 20m Ukrainians is worth it in their book.(25m would flee for the west).

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Not indefinitely, but long and strong enough to defeat Russia.

I agree, the west won't back down anytime soon. To do so would be a massive positive sign to a criminal like Putin that he can do what he likes.

 

[metalblue]

The trade off of 2m dead to enslave 20m Ukrainians is worth it in their book.(25m would leave for the west).

No price is too high when it comes to the egotistical nature of the average Russian male.

 

[metalblue]

I agree, the west won't back down anytime soon. To do so would be a massive positive sign to a criminal like Putin that he can do what he likes.

The west won’t back down unless Putin comes to his senses*. At that point there is no positive sign Putin can take from it, he’s lost, however he tries to sell it domestically.


*or Trump gets in and signals a change of direction which might well be a scenario being played out in the Kremlin.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The west won’t back down unless Putin comes to his senses*. At that point there is no positive sign Putin can take from it, he’s lost, however he tries to sell it domestically.


*or Trump gets in and signals a change of direction which might well be a scenario being played out in the Kremlin.

It doesn't have to be Trump. If the Republicans go down the route of nominating a MAGA candidate over a traditional conservative, and said candidate beats Biden (a real possibility) the US's direction in Ukraine is just as likely to change as if Trump himself got back in.

Like I said above, it's a huge spectre looming over the horizon that must be taken seriously, and a scenario Russia will be using every trick in their book to try and engineer.

Even more reason to get this war over sooner rather than later. And that either means full Nato forces smashing Russia to pieces, or everyone getting round a negotiating table.

I'd love us to roll into Ukraine and kill every last Russian **** stood on their land but it's just not going to happen, which means the negotiation angle needs to be looked at.

Someone like Erdogan is well placed to at least try and broker it.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

...

It doesn't have to be Trump. If the Republicans go down the route of nominating a MAGA candidate over a traditional conservative, and said candidate beats Biden (a real possibility) the US's direction in Ukraine is just as likely to change as if Trump himself got back in.

Like I said above, it's a huge spectre looming over the horizon that must be taken seriously, and a scenario Russia will be using every trick in their book to try and engineer.

Even more reason to get this war over sooner rather than later. And that either means full Nato forces smashing Russia to pieces, or everyone getting round a negotiating table.

I'd love us to roll into Ukraine and kill every last Russian **** stood on their land but it's just not going to happen, which means the negotiation angle needs to be looked at.

Someone like Erdogan is well placed to at least try and broker it.

All of this further emphasises why getting as much support to Ukraine as fast as possible is so important. It not only saves Ukranian lives, it also makes the Russian strategy of outlasting Western support far less likely to succeed.

 

[metalblue]

It doesn't have to be Trump. If the Republicans go down the route of nominating a MAGA candidate over a traditional conservative, and said candidate beats Biden (a real possibility) the US's direction in Ukraine is just as likely to change as if Trump himself got back in.

Like I said above, it's a huge spectre looming over the horizon that must be taken seriously, and a scenario Russia will be using every trick in their book to try and engineer.

Even more reason to get this war over sooner rather than later. And that either means full Nato forces smashing Russia to pieces, or everyone getting round a negotiating table.

I'd love us to roll into Ukraine and kill every last Russian **** stood on their land but it's just not going to happen, which means the negotiation angle needs to be looked at.

Someone like Erdogan is well placed to at least try and broker it.

Definitely mate. If we see it, Russia sees it, they’ll hold on for that possibility - unfortunately - rather than negotiate.

 

[metalblue]

...


All of this further emphasises why getting as much support to Ukraine as fast as possible is so important. It not only saves Ukranian lives, it also makes the Russian strategy of outlasting Western support far less likely to succeed.

We won’t though, we (the west) aren’t prepared to empty our tank sheds and our industries are not on a war footing. Perhaps history will judge our leaders foolish.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

We won’t though, we (the west) aren’t prepared to empty our tank sheds and our industries are not on a war footing. Perhaps history will judge our leaders foolish.

Yeah, I agree we could do more, and faster, and might well regret not having done so.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

...


All of this further emphasises why getting as much support to Ukraine as fast as possible is so important. It not only saves Ukranian lives, it also makes the Russian strategy of outlasting Western support far less likely to succeed.

In the short term I agree - and should the American election go as everyone is predicting / hoping then we should also pursue a long term strategy of backing Ukraine.

But there needs to be a plan in place for some kind of settlement, and conversations happening around it via back channels.

I am terrified of what might happen I f the Americans elect a MAGA candidate and the war is still roughly where it is now.