Russian invasion of Ukraine

Saw on the news last night (or it may have been the night before) someone interviewing random people in Moscow and one person said they had to invade Ukraine because 'NATO was going to invade Russia'. This, unfortunately, is the level of fear, paranoia and brainwashing that we are dealing with and why Vlad is still where he is at the moment. Hopefully the truth will dawn at some stage - but probably only after Putin has gone, not before.
 
Gremlin said:
Saw on the news last night (or it may have been the night before) someone interviewing random people in Moscow and one person said they had to invade Ukraine because 'NATO was going to invade Russia'. This, unfortunately, is the level of fear, paranoia and brainwashing that we are dealing with and why Vlad is still where he is at the moment. Hopefully the truth will dawn at some stage - but probably only after Putin has gone, not before.
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On the one hand I get this paranoia for historical reasons, but it isn’t founded in logic or common sense.

Firstly, because none of these invading forces have succeeded.

Secondly, because the nature of warfare has changed. Invasions are much less likely to succeed than in the past. Guerrilla tactics, communications technology, the widespread ability to make explosives and now the rise of relatively cheap, widely available drones means it is much harder (and much more attritional) to hold territory you have claimed. Afghanistan (on numerous occasions) Iraq and now Ukraine have suitably demonstrated this.

The notion that NATO would invade Russia is so preposterous that only someone utterly deluded would actually believe it. It would be an insane undertaking that would be doomed to failure. And to what end?

It’s easy to blame this Russian viewpoint on state propaganda, but any reasonable person applying their mind to it must surely see it is a complete fantasy.
 
mancityvstoke said:
I didn't think long and hard about it to be honest....I just watched this documentary and thought it was interesting how we are flying next to the border with Russia (Estonia) and Lossiemouth intercepting Russian fighters.

I also wondered why they are doing it? Is it to pre empt a strike against us or Estonia perhaps.

It all reminds me of WW2 I suppose. Hitler suddenly invading thinking we (Europe) were weak.
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As long as Russia has a megalomaniac leader with a stated intention to recreate the Russian Empire, the West through NATO needs to not only have defences in place to repel any incursions, it also needs to demonstrate to Russia that a response will be immediate and overwhelming. Putin is the opposite of a master strategist. He thought he could walk through Ukraine in 3 days so any sign of weakness could easily make him think the same with bordering NATO countries. The fact that we are deploying to Estonia along with other NATO allies is a clear demonstration to Russia that NATO stands united in the defence of its members. And a clear demonstration is obviously needed because Putin is a fucking idiot who would see any sign of weakness or discord between members as a reason to invade even if that weakness was not real.
 
west didsblue said:
As long as Russia has a megalomaniac leader with a stated intention to recreate the Russian Empire, the West through NATO needs to not only have defences in place to repel any incursions, it also needs to demonstrate to Russia that a response will be immediate and overwhelming. Putin is the opposite of a master strategist. He thought he could walk through Ukraine in 3 days so any sign of weakness could easily make him think the same with bordering NATO countries. The fact that we are deploying to Estonia along with other NATO allies is a clear demonstration to Russia that NATO stands united in the defence of its members. And a clear demonstration is obviously needed because Putin is a fucking idiot who would see any sign of weakness or discord between members as a reason to invade even if that weakness was not real.
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Force is the only language the **** understands. Apart from Russian.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I broadly agree with what you are saying but if there is one international gathering Russia should not be shunned from, it is probably this one.

It’s hugely complex but a prize that promotes peace should probably do everything it can to avoid picking sides.

Think Russian sporting stars, including tennis players should be excluded from all competitions though. That will be far more effective.
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Interestingly, the only one of the 5 nobel prizes not given out in Sweden is the Peace prize, which is Oslo.
 
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