Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I don't want to go off topic. I will just make this footballing analogy. Labour took over a football club in complete disarray, and you're judging after a few games.

As for the state the Tories have left the military in, the army would struggle to fight a large scale battle against a capable enemy, never mind fight a war against one.

Less troops now than we had in the Napoleonic Wars ..... The last Government have well and truly f@cked the Forces .... Im surprised that it wasn't sold off and privatised like all of the Accommodation.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Less troops now than we had in the Napoleonic Wars ..... The last Government have well and truly f@cked the Forces .... Im surprised that it wasn't sold off and privatised like all of the Accommodation.

Please take it to an appropriate uk politics thread.

 

[grunge]

Please take it to an appropriate uk politics thread.

I can see why your saying it but our military spending is directly related to our ability to assist Ukraine so it is a valid discussion for this thread. just easy to get off topic and derail.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Less troops now than we had in the Napoleonic Wars ..... The last Government have well and truly f@cked the Forces .... Im surprised that it wasn't sold off and privatised like all of the Accommodation.

If you look at modern warfare do you now need a large standing army? Tanks are now looking obsolete as you can pick them off with drones dropping stuff through the hatches, having more troops available just gives more targets for the drone operators to pick off. Russia has a much larger army than Ukraine, it’s not delivered significant objectives of taking the country. It’s kept them fighting the war longer but delivered a stale mate.

A country like the U.K. which is an island and has a nuclear deterrent a large standing army isn’t required specially as we are in NATO. Spending needs to be on drones, artificial intelligence. Those nice new worker robots that Elon Musk has been showing off, there will be ones with a nasty switch incorporated in development somewhere to go stand on a battlefield instead of people.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Trump is going to insert himself into this conflict most likely. He'll propose that Ukraine simply ceed all territory lost to Russia during the war as a means of peace. Ukraine will never accept this. Meanwhile, Trump will cut off all aid to Ukraine because they're not following his peace plan.

(I'm a US Citizen)...

It's up to you Europe - do you want to permit Russia to invade a neighbor and seize territory? Or do you want to resist oppression? How far are you willing to go? What if the USA withdraws from NATO - as I think it will, once Trump is in power.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Trump is going to insert himself into this conflict most likely. He'll propose that Ukraine simply ceed all territory lost to Russia during the war as a means of peace. Ukraine will never accept this. Meanwhile, Trump will cut off all aid to Ukraine because they're not following his peace plan.

(I'm a US Citizen)...

It's up to you Europe - do you want to permit Russia to invade a neighbor and seize territory? Or do you want to resist oppression? How far are you willing to go? What if the USA withdraws from NATO - as I think it will, once Trump is in power.

The world is a bit more of a fragmented place than when Trump left office 4 years ago. Putin hadn’t shown his hand yet but would do 6 months later massing tanks on the border of Ukraine. You’ve also got China up to all sorts of mischievousness and now hand in hand with Russia and every other pariah country also whilst they court African nations as well.

A split in NATO would be a gift to Russia and China, long term would that be good for American interests allowing two nuclear superpowers to bully their neighbours. Hopefully common sense prevails from an American standpoint on things.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Hopefully common sense prevails from an American standpoint on things.

Trump is extremely erratic. There's no hoping for common sense once Trump takes power. Europe is on its own.

As for China, for whatever reason, Trump has shown himself to be anti-China. How that manifests is unclear - other than, of course, the expectation that he'll impose a bunch of tariffs on foreign trade once in office.

 

[grunge]

Trump is going to insert himself into this conflict most likely. He'll propose that Ukraine simply ceed all territory lost to Russia during the war as a means of peace. Ukraine will never accept this. Meanwhile, Trump will cut off all aid to Ukraine because they're not following his peace plan.

(I'm a US Citizen)...

It's up to you Europe - do you want to permit Russia to invade a neighbor and seize territory? Or do you want to resist oppression? How far are you willing to go? What if the USA withdraws from NATO - as I think it will, once Trump is in power.

I think this will depend if the Republicans get the house. I read that a new law had been put in place that blocked any sitting president from removing the US from any treaties without a vote through the house.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Trump is extremely erratic. There's no hoping for common sense once Trump takes power. Europe is on its own.

As for China, for whatever reason, Trump has shown himself to be anti-China. How that manifests is unclear - other than, of course, the expectation that he'll impose a bunch of tariffs on foreign trade once in office.

Where’s the hawkishness gone that existed in the Republican Party that likes facing down a foreign country. It’s bizarre there seems to be more dislike for Ukraine than a long time enemy like Russia. Unfortunately it’s probably the same situation like here in the U.K. where Russian Oligarchs own most of Mayfair, they’d rather take the money than putting Russia back in their place.

Perhaps if Russia puts icbms in Mexico we might see some movement.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I think this will depend if the Republicans get the house. I read that a new law had been put in place that blocked any sitting president from removing the US from any treaties without a vote through the house.

Projections are that Republicans will easily get the house.