Sam Allardyce: Epitome of why English football has lagged behind

I'm sure they really enjoyed getting relegated the following season, in particular the total chaos of that season.

And?

Someone has to go down in the end, don't really get the fuss, if you ain't challenging for titles or even European places is there any real point in just surviving? I'd argue and think a lot of city fans will feel similar, that being down a division (or 2) is actually better, you see your team win more often than not, they can play better football as they're actually trying to win games.

Oh look, Newcastle had a great season th eone following relegation, came back up with a manager who likes to play nice stuff.

It's not facetious at all, it's a case of being careful what you wish for, and in many cases, delusions of grandeur. I can still remember the Charlton fans getting on the back of Alan Curbishley and demanding he be sacked. That worked out well for them.

Sacking Curbishley wasn't the problem it was who they brought in after.
 
He gets appointed to those roles because it's known that Allardyce will succeed in the parameters of the club in question. Staying up isn't "narrowly avoiding complete failure" for those teams, it's a huge achievement for a club in serious trouble. His Bolton days are long behind him, now he's a hired gun to keep someone up, and he delivers that. With West Ham did he leave them in far better shape than when he arrived? Absolutely he did. Did he do what Everton wanted him to do last year? Yes he did.

Not every manager is there to emulate Guardiola, sometimes sights are set a lot lower than that. You hear often enough people say what would Guardiola do with Bolton, well this is the same thing the other way around - and precisely why each is appointed to the kind of clubs they are.

Neil Warnock isn't even close to doing what Allardyce does, but he's an interesting example to pick because his speciality is getting teams promoted. He does it superbly. Allardyce stabilises clubs and keeps them in the Premier League. It's nothing to sneer at, it's a skill. All the times we watched City tumble down the table and knowing exactly what was to come we'd have given our eye teeth to have someone like him come in, sort out the basics and stay up.

Allardyce buys clubs time. West Ham are a great case in point; in the period he was there he brought them up and established them in the top division while moving ground. That's pretty impressive. It doesn't mean that he's the answer to everything, but he at least put them in a position where they could look to develop further under someone else.

Well done to Stuart Pearce then in hindsight.

He's a specialist in near failure who has found a niche for himself.

And he does it in very similar style to all the other blokes who have operated in the same area of promotion/relegation.

Just like you employ Fat Sam to keep you up, you employ Neil Warnock to get you there.

The two could follow each other round, with Moyes in 3rd place.

Warnock gets a team up, then just before they go back down, he's sacked & in comes Fat Sam, who keeps them up, then gets sacked & in comes Moyes, to try & aheive mid table mediocrity with a 'thinking man's Neil Warnock' plan.

Unless Roy Hodgson is available, as he can do all 3 better than any of them with better football & would never dream of disrespecting a bloke like Emery after his first game.
 
And?

Someone has to go down in the end, don't really get the fuss, if you ain't challenging for titles or even European places is there any real point in just surviving? I'd argue and think a lot of city fans will feel similar, that being down a division (or 2) is actually better, you see your team win more often than not, they can play better football as they're actually trying to win games.

Oh look, Newcastle had a great season th eone following relegation, came back up with a manager who likes to play nice stuff.



Sacking Curbishley wasn't the problem it was who they brought in after.

Curbishly was like Pep Guardiola of the bottom compated to Fat Sam.
 
Well done to Stuart Pearce then in hindsight.

He's a specialist in near failure who has found a niche for himself.

And he does it in very similar style to all the other blokes who have operated in the same area of promotion/relegation.

Just like you employ Fat Sam to keep you up, you employ Neil Warnock to get you there.

The two could follow each other round, with Moyes in 3rd place.

Warnock gets a team up, then just before they go back down, he's sacked & in comes Fat Sam, who keeps them up, then gets sacked & in comes Moyes, to try & aheive mid table mediocrity with a 'thinking man's Neil Warnock' plan.

Unless Roy Hodgson is available, as he can do all 3 better than any of them with better football & would never dream of disrespecting a bloke like Emery after his first game.

That made me laugh, because while we may disagree about Allardyce's talents, that scenario is absolutely spot on! Chapeau.
 
obviously not read my previous posts - under Allardyce it wasn't mind numbing football any more or less than under any manager we've had.

heres a few non entertaining games i went too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17642969

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/14457337

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/14606038

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-portsmth/238328

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-blackpool/238388

http://www.skysports.com/football/blackpool-vs-west-ham/256741

http://www.skysports.com/football/barnsley-vs-west-ham/256801

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-birmham/238760

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-brighton/238772

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-cardiff/259100

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/west-ham-united-3-0-fulham-1285428

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/80900/west-ham-vs-southampton/index

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-chelsea/261710

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-man-utd/284612

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-reading/261939

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-man-utd/280475

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24350201 (my favorite away game ever)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25063916

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25474663

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-tottenham/287655

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25328568

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29187275

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29670449

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30266472 (up to 3rd in December before the wheels fell off)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30766357

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30705802


as you can see, some real boring times under Sam, from championship to Prem, a semi final and leaving us in Europe - the dinosaur.

So you saw some games where you either punched above your weight, City/Rags etc or others against bottom half teams who you beat comfortably.

The whole point of this thread, something you again manage to miss, is that Allardyce has no fucking right, none whatsoever, in telling a trophy winning manager, who's team play pleasing on the eye football, how to do his job.

He's won the sum total of fuck all, he's sides play percentage football and he brings it down to the level of Sunday league.

He's a fucking dinosaur and gets the job only for the reason @Neville Kneville has described above.

No point continuing this conversation as you'll never admit that the guy is a dinosaur and harp on about how he once managed to beat City with the hammers, you defended him all through the England debacle of one game and can't see the wood for the trees.

If he's so good at the job, why is he sat on Goals on Sunday? Because no one really wants him.
 
Well done to Stuart Pearce then in hindsight.

He's a specialist in near failure who has found a niche for himself.

And he does it in very similar style to all the other blokes who have operated in the same area of promotion/relegation.

Just like you employ Fat Sam to keep you up, you employ Neil Warnock to get you there.

The two could follow each other round, with Moyes in 3rd place.

Warnock gets a team up, then just before they go back down, he's sacked & in comes Fat Sam, who keeps them up, then gets sacked & in comes Moyes, to try & aheive mid table mediocrity with a 'thinking man's Neil Warnock' plan.

Unless Roy Hodgson is available, as he can do all 3 better than any of them with better football & would never dream of disrespecting a bloke like Emery after his first game.

That made me laugh, because while we may disagree about Allardyce's talents, that scenario is absolutely spot on! Chapeau.

And boils down to the short termism in the game, Everton would have probably survived last season with Koeman staying in charge, he could have been allowed time to develop the team into what he wanted, but no, sack him, hire BFS, keep them up, sack him,hire Silva... what happens if Silva loses 4 of the next 5 games?

And it's usually the fault of the press who start banging BFS or Colin Wankers drum to get the new guy fired and them instated in their place. It's just a huge merry-go-round of the same old faces.

Until chairmen give the guy they hired in the first place more time it'll continue like it.
 
And boils down to the short termism in the game, Everton would have probably survived last season with Koeman staying in charge, he could have been allowed time to develop the team into what he wanted, but no, sack him, hire BFS, keep them up, sack him,hire Silva... what happens if Silva loses 4 of the next 5 games?

I actually agree with you entirely about Koeman. Things looked like they were starting to improve a bit by the time they sacked him, the players looked like they were starting to get the hang of what he wanted of them. What you need is a board that tells the players to shut up, stop moaning, and that the manager is the one in charge, so deal with it. The moment players smell blood, they down tools.
 
And boils down to the short termism in the game, Everton would have probably survived last season with Koeman staying in charge, he could have been allowed time to develop the team into what he wanted, but no, sack him, hire BFS, keep them up, sack him,hire Silva... what happens if Silva loses 4 of the next 5 games?

And it's usually the fault of the press who start banging BFS or Colin Wankers drum to get the new guy fired and them instated in their place. It's just a huge merry-go-round of the same old faces.

Until chairmen give the guy they hired in the first place more time it'll continue like it.

That's the exact mentality Fat Sam is using to slag off Emery & it's the mentality which hss kept people like him in a job.

If clubs gave footballing managers a couple of years to put their ideas into place, then maybe some would still actually go down & also maybe, some would come back up, with young teams playing genuine football & never look back.

But if it isn't happening immediately, there are an army of dinosaurs, so many of whom are cronies of Fat Sam & many seem to have a voice in the media & then loads of talking heads who thrive on any kind of potential drama, to big themselves up & don't give a fuck what damage they do (Merson a prime example).

Add it all together & the message is clear: stick to what we know. Don't try anything 'clever'.

They were doing this with Gurdiola two seasons ago ffs!

PEP GUARDIOLA!!

Can't do them fancy foreign things over here...
 

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