Sam Allardyce: Epitome of why English football has lagged behind

Not sure i would agree with this.

To understand people like BFS you need to go back and look at what happened in the mid 80's onwards while Bert Millichip & his cronies were in charge of the F.A.
Under his tenure (and against a backdrop of declining attendancies, football hooliganism & crumbling infrastructure etc) he commissioned a report/investigation/study looking into English football, and how to make it more entertaining & appealing. They went with flawed pre-conceived concept that more goals = more entertainment, so proceeded to look at a breakdown of how goals were scored (with a view to isolating a style of play/ tactics that would produce more goals per game that could be coached from grass routes level up) .

The problem was that when they analysed a large number of games from the top divisions in England, a startling statistic came to light; one in which the average number of passes made (once a team received possession) that led to a goal was 3 or less. Therefore they concluded that possession wasn't the key to scoring more goals, but putting/keeping the ball in the danger areas in & around the opponents box would. And hence the FA used this as their blueprint for supposedly more entertaining (and hopefully more successful) football.
This led to many teams employing the often see tactic of a big guy upfront nodding it down for a (usually) smaller, nippier strike partner (i.e. like the old Wimbledon, or Graham Sharpe & co at Everton).
It was from this concept that the English then began to consider the attributes of strength, power & pace more desirable & needed than passing accuracy or technical ability on the ball.
And this is the background in which BFS (and others from that era) developed/formed their basis of football strategy & tactics.

Ironically, whilst the F.A. went down this route (practically route one), European countries that were considered backwater/second rate teams (i.e. Denmark & the Scandanavian countries etc) decided to develop a blueprint for their future teams based on the succesful club teams of that time (i.e. Liverpool etc) and a possession/ technical type of football.

Wheras Norway followed us, & after a short spell of relative success, ruining several World Cup games as a spectacle & beating Brazil in the process, just look at them now.

That would be the perfect international job for Fat Sam: Norway.

He could strive for mind numbing mediocrity & nobody would give a fuck how he got there, so long as he did. And then he'd be a hero, just by being average.
 
No.

Because I can't name someone else who has made quite such a career out of narrowly avoiding complete failure.

Most people are in football aiming for the top. Sam & his mates, aim to reach & hang around near the bottom.

They either slither up to reach the bottom, from below, or scrabble around to try & avoid touching the bottom, from just above.

If I had to name the most similar manager to Sam, it would be Neil Warnock, but he tends to slither up, rather than scrabble above.

Bolton top 6
West Ham top 10, and at Christmas we was in 4th before injuries hit us
Everton 8th, would have been higher had he been appointed earlier.
not sure what more he can do when majority of time he's taking over demoralized clubs facing relegation that do not have anywhere near the money the top 6 have had
 
No.

Because I can't name someone else who has made quite such a career out of narrowly avoiding complete failure.

Most people are in football aiming for the top. Sam & his mates, aim to reach & hang around near the bottom.

They either slither up to reach the bottom, from below, or scrabble around to try & avoid touching the bottom, from just above.

If I had to name the most similar manager to Sam, it would be Neil Warnock, but he tends to slither up, rather than scrabble above.

He gets appointed to those roles because it's known that Allardyce will succeed in the parameters of the club in question. Staying up isn't "narrowly avoiding complete failure" for those teams, it's a huge achievement for a club in serious trouble. His Bolton days are long behind him, now he's a hired gun to keep someone up, and he delivers that. With West Ham did he leave them in far better shape than when he arrived? Absolutely he did. Did he do what Everton wanted him to do last year? Yes he did.

Not every manager is there to emulate Guardiola, sometimes sights are set a lot lower than that. You hear often enough people say what would Guardiola do with Bolton, well this is the same thing the other way around - and precisely why each is appointed to the kind of clubs they are.

Neil Warnock isn't even close to doing what Allardyce does, but he's an interesting example to pick because his speciality is getting teams promoted. He does it superbly. Allardyce stabilises clubs and keeps them in the Premier League. It's nothing to sneer at, it's a skill. All the times we watched City tumble down the table and knowing exactly what was to come we'd have given our eye teeth to have someone like him come in, sort out the basics and stay up.

Allardyce buys clubs time. West Ham are a great case in point; in the period he was there he brought them up and established them in the top division while moving ground. That's pretty impressive. It doesn't mean that he's the answer to everything, but he at least put them in a position where they could look to develop further under someone else.
 
Bolton top 6
West Ham top 10, and at Christmas we was in 4th before injuries hit us
Everton 8th, would have been higher had he been appointed earlier.
not sure what more he can do when majority of time he's taking over demoralized clubs facing relegation that do not have anywhere near the money the top 6 have had

So you're happy to finish 10th with mind numbing football?

Newcastle fans can't stand the twat either because they'd also like to see some form of attacking intent from their sides.

Everton fans weren't happy to finish 8th watching it, it's an entertainment business ffs.

Look at WBA they've had higher attendances in the championship because they're now trying to play football and win games rather than bore their supporters to death by trying not to lose them.
 
Newcastle fans can't stand the twat either because they'd also like to see some form of attacking intent from their sides.

I'm sure they really enjoyed getting relegated the following season, in particular the total chaos of that season.
 
That's a bit facetious. Of course no-one enjoys relegation. But to pay bloody good money once or twice a week to watch 90 minutes of the most brain-numbing, negative, dire hoofball can't be enjoyable either.

It's not facetious at all, it's a case of being careful what you wish for, and in many cases, delusions of grandeur. I can still remember the Charlton fans getting on the back of Alan Curbishley and demanding he be sacked. That worked out well for them.
 
So you're happy to finish 10th with mind numbing football?

Newcastle fans can't stand the twat either because they'd also like to see some form of attacking intent from their sides.

Everton fans weren't happy to finish 8th watching it, it's an entertainment business ffs.

Look at WBA they've had higher attendances in the championship because they're now trying to play football and win games rather than bore their supporters to death by trying not to lose them.

obviously not read my previous posts - under Allardyce it wasn't mind numbing football any more or less than under any manager we've had.

heres a few non entertaining games i went too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17642969

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/14457337

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/14606038

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-portsmth/238328

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-blackpool/238388

http://www.skysports.com/football/blackpool-vs-west-ham/256741

http://www.skysports.com/football/barnsley-vs-west-ham/256801

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-birmham/238760

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-brighton/238772

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-cardiff/259100

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/west-ham-united-3-0-fulham-1285428

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/80900/west-ham-vs-southampton/index

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-chelsea/261710

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-man-utd/284612

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-reading/261939

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-man-utd/280475

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24350201 (my favorite away game ever)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25063916

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25474663

http://www.skysports.com/football/west-ham-vs-tottenham/287655

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25328568

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29187275

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29670449

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30266472 (up to 3rd in December before the wheels fell off)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30766357

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30705802


as you can see, some real boring times under Sam, from championship to Prem, a semi final and leaving us in Europe - the dinosaur.
 
Bolton top 6
West Ham top 10, and at Christmas we was in 4th before injuries hit us
Everton 8th, would have been higher had he been appointed earlier.
not sure what more he can do when majority of time he's taking over demoralized clubs facing relegation that do not have anywhere near the money the top 6 have had

He's taking over 'demoralised' clubs facing relegation, because he's shite.

They are in deep shit & decide they have to sack their manager, nobody wants to go there, so they have a choice of A: the assistant manager (if he's still there) B: an untried young coach from the lower leagues. C: a newly retired player with no experience D: Neil Warnock or Tony Pulis E: Fat Sam, who has previous experience of keeping teams up. F: Tony Book.

So he keeps getting jobs, dumbs down the football, to avoid players making mistakes under pressure, cashes in on a bit of 'new manager syndrome' & rinse & repeat.

As for his 'acheivements' at the top end, those aren't 'acheivements' at all. There is nothing special about getting clubs like West Ham & Everton into those positions & the talk of 'money' is ridiculous. If West Ham & Everton aren't up near top 6, who else is there who should finish above them ? Leicester ?

Peter Reid had City above Ferguson's Utd.

#footballgenius
 

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