Scottish independence

[hgblue]

I want a yes vote so I can watch it go tits up

How long will it be before a campaign starts to rejoin the union? I give it ten years :-).

 

[metalblue]

If they vote 'yes' when do they actually become independent? How long is the transition period to sort things out?

2016 (I think March of that year).

Passports won't be needed, as is the case between Ireland and Northern Ireland/IOM and mainland UK etc.

And we'll use the £.

Passports won't be needed IF you have the same immigration policy. Ireland, in order to be in the common travel area, has always had an immigration policy which is virtually identical to ours. An independent Scotland will therefore need either border controls, or will have no right to determine its own immigration policy.

You can use the pound, but it won't be in a currency union because the UK will not want to be a lender of last resort to an economy it has no control over. Also, you cannot join the EU if you go down the sterlingisation route because it requires you to have a central bank.

Salmond is trying to convince you that you can have your cake and eat it as well.

Good points, well made.

Currency unions tend to fair badly. What the Salmond has managed to dodge so well is that whatever the currency answer (and I very much doubt a formal £ union will be agreed) Scotland will not have control over it's fiscal policy, ergo it will have to run everything it does past Westminster to get agreement. Even with everything being decided by London if the markets don't think London has strong enough control over Scotland it will damage the £ to the point we would rip up any agreement in a heartbeat. And if anyone doubts that they are naive.

For me, the best solution for Scotland will be a pegged currency, again no fiscal control will apply but you won't have to run ever policy past London before implementing it. Holding enough £ to make this work will be the challange but at least it will allow the frameworks to be put in place to decouple it somewhere down the line.

The trouble is the only option Salmond and Scotland are actually prepared for is no change, i.e a currency union. There is no plan B.

 

[Gabriel]

Or he won't openly elaborate on a Plan B.

 

[ChesterRdBlue]

I hope they take their chance. I'm no expert and have no idea how it would work out but the opportunity to separate from the corruption and filth of Westminster is one that shouldn't be passed up.

There's certainly not going to be any improvements staying with the rest of us poor sods, governed by privileged for the benefit of themselves whilst it gets tougher for the majority to get by.

I can't see how it could get much worse and if it did at least the people who need to be held accountable are not hundreds of miles away with your interests towards the bottom of the give a shit list.

Good luck and hopefully a yes vote would give the whole shitty system a jolt for change.

 

[JULES]

They will use the GBP but have no control on interest rates or any lender of last resort so if things go tits up they are in serious trouble. I lot of them really have no idea just what they are voting for. It is turkey's voting for Christmas.
Salmond has done a great job of whipping them up into a nationalistic frenzy. However with Salmond it is all about ideology and ideologists do not not have any care or concern for the consequences that a 'Yes' vote will entail.
A country gets the government it deserves...[/quote]

fat alex reminds me of a certain ally mcleod, were going to win the world cup etc. till the reality hit!

 

[nobody can eat fifty eggs]

If Scotland vote yes does that mean our token Jockies will go back home to bonny?

Hope so ;-)

 

[ayrshire_blue]

I want a yes vote so I can watch it go tits up

How long will it be before a campaign starts to rejoin the union? I give it ten years :-).

Yep. Like the other 125 countries who have all gained independence in the last centuary or so. Always looking to rejoin the........erm...........infact....LOL

If Scotland vote yes does that mean our token Jockies will go back home to bonny?

Hope so ;-)

They may do so if they wish. Unlike you, and a small minority of English people though, if you ever fancy an extended visit up here you'll be welcomed with open arms.

They will use the GBP but have no control on interest rates or any lender of last resort so if things go tits up they are in serious trouble. I lot of them really have no idea just what they are voting for. It is turkey's voting for Christmas.
Salmond has done a great job of whipping them up into a nationalistic frenzy. However with Salmond it is all about ideology and ideologists do not not have any care or concern for the consequences that a 'Yes' vote will entail.
A country gets the government it deserves...

fat alex reminds me of a certain ally mcleod, were going to win the world cup etc. till the reality hit![/quote]

I keep hearing this "those who are voting yes don't know what they're voting for" "Turkey's voting for Christmas" carry on. The guardian has today released an article stating that a study which has been conducted has found that those better educated on the subject of the referendum tend to be voting YES.

As Barroso himself stated on Andy Marr's show, when pushed hard, it would be difficult for Scotland to rejoin the EU. However, he never said it would be impossible. Moreover, with a political perspective that is more in tune with other EU Members than say, England, I suspect Scotland would not be kept out of the fold for too long. As the centre of horse trading par excellence, Brussels would likely see deals cut to satisfy all parties.

I very much doubt that. Spain is and always has been, vehemently anti secessionist and it would take monumental bribes from Brussels to calm them down, something that they would probably feel is way too much trouble. In common with others on here, I cannot understand how the Jocks are thinking of taking such a monumental decision, when currency, EU membership, defence etc; questions have not been answered at all.
However, now that it looks like they'll be getting even more concessions if they vote no, I fervently hope the yes vote wins by a landslide.

Part of being in the European Union is stomaching unpalatable decisions, and Spain really isn't in the strongest position to oppose Scottish entry. At heart, the EU prefers to include rather than exclude, so Scotland would probably be more welcome than unwelcome. For Eurocrats, there would also be the added piquancy of having Scotland in the EU at a time when England is considering a position of self-isolation. On the matter of defence, I posted a link earlier which sets out potential scenarios, though I agree the immediate currency matter remains the most nettlesome. Perhaps the 'Jocks' simply want to determine their own destiny henceforth.

Nail on the head mate. Your last sentence pretty much sums it up. It's never going to be a decision taken without any risks. But the fact of the matter is it's neither going to be a utopia nor go completely tits up. I'm prepared to take the risk of being slightly worse off in the short term for the benefit to future generations in the longer term. I'm prepared to do it, but that still doesn't mean I think we will be any worse off at all.

"Papa why are we living in a country which has lots of rich people who keep getting richer and lots of poor people who keep getting poorer"

"Because I voted no 50 years ago".

 

[metalblue]

Nail on the head mate. Your last sentence pretty much sums it up. It's never going to be a decision taken without any risks. But the fact of the matter is it's neither going to be a utopia nor go completely tits up. I'm prepared to take the risk of being slightly worse off in the short term for the benefit to future generations in the longer term. I'm prepared to do it, but that still doesn't mean I think we will be any worse off at all.

"Papa why are we living in a country which has lots of rich people who keep getting richer and lots of poor people who keep getting poorer"

"Because I voted no 50 years ago".

Do you honestly think that mate? The vote will be too close to not change the landscape forever, if you vote no the next time the independence debate comes up is when/if we get the EU referendum. example; Scotland wants to stay in, England doesn't.

Scotland is ill prepared for it now but Salmond will be under no doubt the policy areas he needs concrete for his next stab at the debate if a no vote prevails.

 

[trotsky]

So can we send all the Jocks in jail back to Scotland ?
And can we have our park benches back from all the drunken Glaswegians who have made them home?
If so, I'm in the "Yes" camp :-)

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Nail on the head mate. Your last sentence pretty much sums it up. It's never going to be a decision taken without any risks. But the fact of the matter is it's neither going to be a utopia nor go completely tits up. I'm prepared to take the risk of being slightly worse off in the short term for the benefit to future generations in the longer term. I'm prepared to do it, but that still doesn't mean I think we will be any worse off at all.

"Papa why are we living in a country which has lots of rich people who keep getting richer and lots of poor people who keep getting poorer"

"Because I voted no 50 years ago".

Do you honestly think that mate? The vote will be too close to not change the landscape forever, if you vote no the next time the independence debate comes up is when/if we get the EU referendum. example; Scotland wants to stay in, England doesn't.

Scotland is ill prepared for it now but Salmond will be under no doubt the policy areas he needs concrete for his next stab at the debate if a no vote prevails.

I honestly think Scotland, and indeed you guys up north, will continue to become worse off in the result of a no vote. Westminster lie to us on a regular basis so I've no doubt they're continuing to do so at the moment.

I've heard a lot of those in the no camp who are of the same opinion as you mate. I.e. vote No just now with a view to a yes vote further down the line. I'm just in the way of thinking that if independence will eventually be gained then why not now?

Of course you could say there's unanswered questions, but there's always going to be unanswered questions in such an event until it actually happens. Questions which are impossible to answer at the moment as 100% fact. There's a difference between that and being ill prepared though.

What we do know is that while independence might not have some answers, Westminster certainly do and they're not looking good.