Scottish independence

[SWP's back]

I wish they would hurry up and fuck off.

All this talk of a socialist utopia where there is perfectly even wealth distribution is as entertaining as it is naive.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

I wish they would hurry up and fuck off.

All this talk of a socialist utopia where there is perfectly even wealth distribution is as entertaining as it is naive.

That's all well and good. But it's only you and Alistair Darling who's mentioning a socialist utopia.

Now who's being naive?

 

[SWP's back]

"Papa why are we living in a country which has lots of rich people who keep getting richer and lots of poor people who keep getting poorer"

"Because I voted no 50 years ago".

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

The difference being that Shetland/Orkney are not countries where as Scotland is!

This sounds dangerously similar to the Argentinian claim for the Falklands.

Ethnically the people of those islands are different to those on mainland Scotland given their Norse past.

You quite rightly want the right to self determination so why shouldn't they be given the same?

 

[GazC]

The difference being Bob that Shetland/Orkney are not countries where as Scotland is!

Independence from Scotland for Shetland/Orkney is as likely as independence from Scotland in Ayrshire/Edinburgh/etc etc. There's absolutely no mandate for it.

I didn't vote for SNP either but it's not about having a government for every individual town, city, island or person. It's about a seperate country not making our decisions for us!

It's about learning to stand on our own two feet and doing what we feel's best for our own country.

I was on holiday recently and people from Canada were speaking to me about the referendum. They are absolutely astonished to the point that they can not believe that we even have to make this decision and it's not a unanimous yes vote.

On Shetland/Orkney if and when Scotland gets control over it's own oil revenues expect that to be fed back into the community at an agreed amount and not what's currently forced on us from London.

That's all well and good; but what if those on the northern islands feel the same about the SNP as the SNP feels about Westminster? What happens if they appeal to the EU for special self determination in the same way Catalonia or Venice have before Scotland even apply, never mind complete the process, for membership? It's a huge 'what-if' and, given the way the vote looks to be going in that part of the country, needs to be given appropriate attention before you hit the ballots - Scotland have been sold an idea of nationalism and independence on a wing and a prayer, you can't build a business on that, never-mind a nation.

As it stands at the moment, you will have no currency of your own, no currency union, no hope of joining the EU, no immigration policy and no firm control over an area that will be bringing in >10% of your tax revenue. I'm all for Scottish independence from London, and would like to think the north would join suite, however you deserve much better than false promises that have no hope of being kept, anyone of which that didn't come to fruition could see the entire house of cards falling down.

 

[Uptop]

The difference being Bob that Shetland/Orkney are not countries where as Scotland is!

Independence from Scotland for Shetland/Orkney is as likely as independence from Scotland in Ayrshire/Edinburgh/etc etc. There's absolutely no mandate for it.

I didn't vote for SNP either but it's not about having a government for every individual town, city, island or person. It's about a seperate country not making our decisions for us!

It's about learning to stand on our own two feet and doing what we feel's best for our own country.

I was on holiday recently and people from Canada were speaking to me about the referendum. They are absolutely astonished to the point that they can not believe that we even have to make this decision and it's not a unanimous yes vote.

On Shetland/Orkney if and when Scotland gets control over it's own oil revenues expect that to be fed back into the community at an agreed amount and not what's currently forced on us from London.

I guess but Orkney and Shetland are different from the rest of Scotland, our cultural roots are not in Scotland but Scandinavia. Just looking at the place names they are all Nordic, Gaelic doesn't exist here. So I guess I'm just saying there is a point of view that we could be separated as we weren't always part of Scotland and could be argued we are distinctly different, even though I am proud to be Scottish and wouldn't want to do that. Devils advocate and all that.

I can see positives and negatives on both sides, I think we will be fine if we go Independant but I just feel in the long term we are better of part of the UK. I don't trust a new government to look out for the best interest of the whole country, I believe it would be the same as it is now, but instead of Westminster it would be Edinburgh. I have already seen the SNP ignore my Islands and if we become independent I see no reason they won't continue to ignore us.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Perfectly reasonable Bob. I guess at the end of the day we all want the same thing - what's best for ourselves, our families and our local communities. I see that being an independent Scotland, some don't.

If nothing else, the campaign has got the whole country talking about Politics and hopefully some people who don't normally pay any attention start to do so and would feel more inclined to vote in any sort of election in the future.

I'm not saying anything else on this thread (for now) because I feel like I'm repeating myself at times - and probably most of you do too!

SWP's back - there was a thread on this very forum around 2011 with 'favourite posters on here'. You were on my list...I'd be very very careful if I were you or you may just lose your place mate ;)

Seriously - good luck to everyone. I hope whichever way the decision goes on the day that it benefits you in the way which you'd hoped.

 

[Ban-jani]

I wish they would hurry up and fuck off.

All this talk of a socialist utopia where there is perfectly even wealth distribution is as entertaining as it is naive.

Good luck to them if they do.

Nothing naive about it either.

 

[Ell-ano]

I've just moved up to Aberdeen from Manchester, and in time to get a vote, its an interesting debate to observe, for me Salmond and the Yes campaign haven't given enough concrete answers on the big questions: currency, Europe etc. but i do hate Cameron and the Tories just as much as any Yes campaigner and i feel that Miliband and Labour have become too similar to the Conservatives and in reality they are the only two parties that will be elected.

 

[Gabriel]

The difference being Bob that Shetland/Orkney are not countries where as Scotland is!

Independence from Scotland for Shetland/Orkney is as likely as independence from Scotland in Ayrshire/Edinburgh/etc etc. There's absolutely no mandate for it.

I didn't vote for SNP either but it's not about having a government for every individual town, city, island or person. It's about a seperate country not making our decisions for us!

It's about learning to stand on our own two feet and doing what we feel's best for our own country.

I was on holiday recently and people from Canada were speaking to me about the referendum. They are absolutely astonished to the point that they can not believe that we even have to make this decision and it's not a unanimous yes vote.

On Shetland/Orkney if and when Scotland gets control over it's own oil revenues expect that to be fed back into the community at an agreed amount and not what's currently forced on us from London.

I guess but Orkney and Shetland are different from the rest of Scotland, our cultural roots are not in Scotland but Scandinavia. Just looking at the place names they are all Nordic, Gaelic doesn't exist here. So I guess I'm just saying there is a point of view that we could be separated as we weren't always part of Scotland and could be argued we are distinctly different, even though I am proud to be Scottish and wouldn't want to do that. Devils advocate and all that.

I can see positives and negatives on both sides, I think we will be fine if we go Independant but I just feel in the long term we are better of part of the UK. I don't trust a new government to look out for the best interest of the whole country, I believe it would be the same as it is now, but instead of Westminster it would be Edinburgh. I have already seen the SNP ignore my Islands and if we become independent I see no reason they won't continue to ignore us.

I genuinely don't fear such repetition. For one thing, Glasgow would demand greater input, while the reliance on energy (renewable and non-) would see the islands and Aberdeen generate greater power- forgive the pun.

As for the SNP, I would imagine the political landscape after a 'Yes' vote would change dramatically, with politicians and parties realigning themselves accordingly.