Scottish independence

[Gabriel]

What about Eckersley Street, ad infinitum...

Yup. Ridiculous, isn't it.

And the other thing is, since at the moment we are all part of the UK, why does EVERYONE in the UK not have a vote on whether Scotland should become independent? It affects all of us.

And the other thing is, since at the moment we are all part of the EU, why does EVERYONE in the EU not have a vote on whether the UK should become independent? It affects all of us. ;-)

 

[cibaman]

What about Eckersley Street, ad infinitum...

Yup. Ridiculous, isn't it.

And the other thing is, since at the moment we are all part of the UK, why does EVERYONE in the UK not have a vote on whether Scotland should become independent? It affects all of us.

It affects all of us. But you cant say that it affects us anything like as much as them. If they get it wrong it could have a hugely detrimental effect on their lives and the lives of their children. If we get it wrong the impact is marginal.

And there's vastly more of us than them. So if we had an equal say it would end up as being a purely English decision. Unless you made it so that one Scottish vote was the equivalent of say 20 rUK votes. Which would put a lot of people off.

If I had a vote I would probably vote YES. Not because I particularly want to see the break up of the Union. But I would find it interesting to observe from a distance how the experiment turns out. I would enjoy the political arguments, the rows over the currency, whether the EU would let them in etc. etc A YES vote would be so much more interesting than NO. But its not really a good reason for giving me a vote.

 

[Chippy_boy]

What about Eckersley Street, ad infinitum...

Yup. Ridiculous, isn't it.

And the other thing is, since at the moment we are all part of the UK, why does EVERYONE in the UK not have a vote on whether Scotland should become independent? It affects all of us.

It affects all of us. But you cant say that it affects us anything like as much as them. If they get it wrong it could have a hugely detrimental effect on their lives and the lives of their children. If we get it wrong the impact is marginal.

And there's vastly more of us than them. So if we had an equal say it would end up as being a purely English decision. Unless you made it so that one Scottish vote was the equivalent of say 20 rUK votes. Which would put a lot of people off.

If I had a vote I would probably vote YES. Not because I particularly want to see the break up of the Union. But I would find it interesting to observe from a distance how the experiment turns out. I would enjoy the political arguments, the rows over the currency, whether the EU would let them in etc. etc A YES vote would be so much more interesting than NO. But its not really a good reason for giving me a vote.

I share the same interest.

But honestly, watching a car crash is not a nice thing to do. Hoping there is one so you can watch it is even worse.

And @johnnyt: this is what 2 weeks of no footy does to me ;-). I'll be bored of all this Scotland nonsense as soon as a ball is kicked at the Emirates tomorrow. I've hardly ever visited the cellar and probably won't do much in future. Sighs of relief all round, I'm sure ;-)

 

[Questy]

If Scottish independence was a vote being undertaken based upon the facts, and with a sensible assessment of what makes the most sense for Scotland as a country then the no vote would absolutely walk this and independence wouldn't even be a remote possibility. However that's not how this is working. The yes vote is one which is being ruled by the heart and not the head, Salmond has repeatedly failed to argue successfully that Scotland would be "better off" as an independent country and his statements and assertions have been demonstrated to be wild conjecture and pie in the sky thinking with no actual basis in reality. Yet still the vote is too close to call. The Scottish people are not morons, so if this was a purely fact driven, intellectual matter then Salmond's campaign would have faltered long ago, the very fact it hasn't is a demonstration of the emotions behind this decision. The Scots need to realise though that, after the emotions have died down, if they do vote for yes then it's the realities that they have to deal with. The currency issues, the taxation issues, the debt, all the future financial, social and political changes that will need to take place, these are the things they'd actually need to figure out because make no mistake about it, Salmond is winging it at present in the hope he can play on the emotions enough to get him over the line. Once the votes are cast, and the decision is made, then he's got his way, and then he can worry about what happens next. Even if all his assertions turn out to be false, which is a distinct possibility, Scotland will still be on the road to independence so, ultimately, he gets his way without having to actually back up any of his promises/statements.

That my friend is NAIL ON HEAD. Too many people watching brave heart and as a Scot it worries me as theres no logic behind many off the votes that will be placed, I can only hope that sense prevails and NO gets the majority vote

 

[i kne albert davy]

If Scottish independence was a vote being undertaken based upon the facts, and with a sensible assessment of what makes the most sense for Scotland as a country then the no vote would absolutely walk this and independence wouldn't even be a remote possibility. However that's not how this is working. The yes vote is one which is being ruled by the heart and not the head, Salmond has repeatedly failed to argue successfully that Scotland would be "better off" as an independent country and his statements and assertions have been demonstrated to be wild conjecture and pie in the sky thinking with no actual basis in reality. Yet still the vote is too close to call. The Scottish people are not morons, so if this was a purely fact driven, intellectual matter then Salmond's campaign would have faltered long ago, the very fact it hasn't is a demonstration of the emotions behind this decision. The Scots need to realise though that, after the emotions have died down, if they do vote for yes then it's the realities that they have to deal with. The currency issues, the taxation issues, the debt, all the future financial, social and political changes that will need to take place, these are the things they'd actually need to figure out because make no mistake about it, Salmond is winging it at present in the hope he can play on the emotions enough to get him over the line. Once the votes are cast, and the decision is made, then he's got his way, and then he can worry about what happens next. Even if all his assertions turn out to be false, which is a distinct possibility, Scotland will still be on the road to independence so, ultimately, he gets his way without having to actually back up any of his promises/statements.

That my friend is NAIL ON HEAD. Too many people watching brave heart and as a Scot it worries me as theres no logic behind many off the votes that will be placed, I can only hope that sense prevails and NO gets the majority vote

Just got back from six weeks working up around Edinburgh and up as far as Aberdeen seems this week as focused a few minds on what independence might actually mean,some of the yes voters will never change their minds, but can't explain why they're just sort of little Scotlanders but I reckon the people who want to preserve the union will just about carry the day.

 

[hackneyslim]

For those of you who cannot understand why anyone would vote Yes, perhaps you might think, if someone belongs to a place which they feel has been dominated, annexed, occupied or simply fucked over by another place for 800 years, they might just vote Yes for emotional reasons.

Do you think the Irish would like to come back into the Union, as an article recently asked?

In a sense, England are the scum - successful and arrogant for many years - and Scotland is an increasingly noisy neighbour . The most memorable game I ever saw was the semi-final when we stuck it right up them. Consider what that might mean on a national level.

Refusing the right to self-determination is the act of an institutionalised slave.

No, we think that the Irish should remain in the European union, where the cost of supporting their economy is shared out amongst all the other nations, including this one, unless we decide otherwise, by leaving the EU. This noisy neighbour that that was last 'Fucked over' was at at Culloden,prior to which the Scots decided to invade us, using an effete Italian playboy as pretender to the throne. We 'Scum' English eventually conjoined the two nations with considerable success, in that we became, allies in virtually every scenario ever since, having an inate admiration for the Scots, which now, to some means much less, which is sad, really.

Fair enough. If you insist on such a view, is it not within the rules of debate to allow the other to express their ideas with similar emotion, language and 'perspective'? Using the word 'effete', really, now? Don't abandon the high ground just yet.

 

[garymj]

I sometimes get the impression that Salmond is just thinking about Salmond, and not Scotland. Being thought of as new William Wallace, and Robert Bruce is what it's all about, and never mind the consequences.

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

It may be that the undecideds are closet NO voters too afraid to be seen as un-Scottish

 

[Ducado]

It may be that the undecideds are closet NO voters too afraid to be seen as un-Scottish

Which happened in the 1992 general election, nearly every opinion poll had Labour down to win, because it was seen as uncoll to say you were voting Tory, they voted Tory nonetheless

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

It may be that the undecideds are closet NO voters too afraid to be seen as un-Scottish

Which happened in the 1992 general election, nearly every opinion poll had Labour down to win, because it was seen as uncoll to say you were voting Tory, they voted Tory nonetheless

Eventually, folk vote with their pockets not their hearts