Scottish independence

[Questy]

Here is the Category's who Voted and where they posted. For me not surprised that 70% of 16-17 yr olds voted Yes.

This is merely a poll and not actual data of all voters.

My apologies, took it as the actual data, still the main thing is that the actual results showed 55% No and thats what counted..

 

[Questy]

Here is the Category's who Voted and where they posted. For me not surprised that 70% of 16-17 yr olds voted Yes.

Questy - as I said in a previous post Salmond stacked the deck hugely in his favour and still took a pasting.
He had to resign.

But But But the vote was rigged, still people clinging onto their beliefs that the vote does not count because someone posted a video saying the vote was rigged, jeeze with people like that voting for an Independant Scotland I am doubly glad myself and the majority of Scotland voted a big fat NO.

 

[Len Rum]

Huffington Post, Sky news currently and many of tomorrow's papers rightly praising Gordon Brown for his starring role in saving the Union.
In time history will give the man the credit he deserves for his pivotal role not only in rescuing the Union but also the Western world from financial collapse some five years earlier.
Opportunity makes the man.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSq8ZBdSxNU[/video]

LOL.
OK he did flog the gold off a bit cheap.

 

[Len Rum]

Bottom line was the Jocks know where their bread is buttered and they voted to maintain the Status Quo because that guaranteed that they could continue to be bailed out by us south of the border.

I hope Westminster now tells Scotland that the next time they want a referendum that the the whole cost of it must be Bourne by the Scottish people and not by the UK in general.

It is now time to stop pampering minorities and put the majority IE. England first. We have been forced to take a back seat for way too long.

The Labour party are the worst offenders for this they seem to have forgotten that the vast majority of their supporters live in England but they seem to pay way too much lip service to a couple of million Jocks. Scotland makes up less than 10% of the population of the UK and it is about time they recognised that.

If they don't act quickly they run the risk of disenfranchising their core support and regional devolution is not the answer. However An English Parliament is.

Sounds simple but how could you have a UK government that was Labour say deciding on UK wide issues such as defence,immigration,foreign affairs (including Europe) etc. and then an English Parliament (Tory), Scottish Parliament (Labour),Welsh Parliament (Labour) deciding all other issues in their countries. Doesn't one affect the other? To pay for our national defences for example would have an impact on taxation, but then what if the country parliaments didn't vote in the necessary tax changes?

 

[stony]

Face it Jocks we know what's best for you, and after 300 years of kowtowing it appears you think so too.

So chin up and get back to work in the haggis mines or we'll send some redcoats up to stick a bayonet up your kilts.

 

[the god Gerry Gow]

I am fuming

I spent a fortune on new tunics for my militia. I planned to invade on Friday morning what with them not having an army or stuff

 

[whp.blue]

Bottom line was the Jocks know where their bread is buttered and they voted to maintain the Status Quo because that guaranteed that they could continue to be bailed out by us south of the border.

I hope Westminster now tells Scotland that the next time they want a referendum that the the whole cost of it must be Bourne by the Scottish people and not by the UK in general.

It is now time to stop pampering minorities and put the majority IE. England first. We have been forced to take a back seat for way too long.

The Labour party are the worst offenders for this they seem to have forgotten that the vast majority of their supporters live in England but they seem to pay way too much lip service to a couple of million Jocks. Scotland makes up less than 10% of the population of the UK and it is about time they recognised that.

If they don't act quickly they run the risk of disenfranchising their core support and regional devolution is not the answer. However An English Parliament is.

Sounds simple but how could you have a UK government that was Labour say deciding on UK wide issues such as defence,immigration,foreign affairs (including Europe) etc. and then an English Parliament (Tory), Scottish Parliament (Labour),Welsh Parliament (Labour) deciding all other issues in their countries. Doesn't one affect the other? To pay for our national defences for example would have an impact on taxation, but then what if the country parliaments didn't vote in the necessary tax changes?

Non of these things prevented the formation of a Scottish,Welsh and Northern Irish Parliaments and then getting more money for their respective countries It is time the English majority were put first

 

[Len Rum]

There are some posts on the 'Vow' signed by the three party leaders doing the rounds on the Cameron thread ,with some posters suggesting increased devolution for Scotland is not possible or 'fair' without addressing the West Lothian question.
Whilst in theory this might sound fair, there was no mention of any 'conditionality' in the Vow.
This Vow must have had a major impact on influencing the vote and whilst not legally enforceable, surely a promise signed by three party leaders has to be 'morally' binding.
If these three leaders Cameron, Milliband and Clegg cannot deliver collectively the votes required in Parliament to effect legislation to give the increased powers to Scotland ( without settlement of the West Lothian issue or any other conditionality) as they PROMISED , then surely all three of them should resign and a new referendum he held?

 

[Gabriel]

There are some posts on the 'Vow' signed by the three party leaders doing the rounds on the Cameron thread ,with some posters suggesting increased devolution for Scotland is not possible or 'fair' without addressing the West Lothian question.
Whilst in theory this might sound fair, there was no mention of any 'conditionality' in the Vow.
This Vow must have had a major impact on influencing the vote and whilst not legally enforceable, surely a promise signed by three party leaders has to be 'morally' binding.
If these three leaders Cameron, Milliband and Clegg cannot deliver collectively the votes required in Parliament to effect legislation to give the increased powers to Scotland ( without settlement of the West Lothian issue or any other conditionality) as they PROMISED , then surely all three of them should resign and a new referendum he held?

A week after the election two of them won't be in power anyway.

 

[Len Rum]

There are some posts on the 'Vow' signed by the three party leaders doing the rounds on the Cameron thread ,with some posters suggesting increased devolution for Scotland is not possible or 'fair' without addressing the West Lothian question.
Whilst in theory this might sound fair, there was no mention of any 'conditionality' in the Vow.
This Vow must have had a major impact on influencing the vote and whilst not legally enforceable, surely a promise signed by three party leaders has to be 'morally' binding.
If these three leaders Cameron, Milliband and Clegg cannot deliver collectively the votes required in Parliament to effect legislation to give the increased powers to Scotland ( without settlement of the West Lothian issue or any other conditionality) as they PROMISED , then surely all three of them should resign and a new referendum he held?

A week after the election two of them won't be in power anyway.

True but one of them will, and I'm saying that that none of them have that right, having broken a signed promise to the people of Scotland.

 

[cibaman]

There are some posts on the 'Vow' signed by the three party leaders doing the rounds on the Cameron thread ,with some posters suggesting increased devolution for Scotland is not possible or 'fair' without addressing the West Lothian question.
Whilst in theory this might sound fair, there was no mention of any 'conditionality' in the Vow.
This Vow must have had a major impact on influencing the vote and whilst not legally enforceable, surely a promise signed by three party leaders has to be 'morally' binding.
If these three leaders Cameron, Milliband and Clegg cannot deliver collectively the votes required in Parliament to effect legislation to give the increased powers to Scotland ( without settlement of the West Lothian issue or any other conditionality) as they PROMISED , then surely all three of them should resign and a new referendum he held?

I agree. I thought "The Vow" was a huge mistake, but having made it they have to stick by it. A deceit of that magnitude would make the expenses scandal seem like an administrative error.

 

[Ducado]

There are some posts on the 'Vow' signed by the three party leaders doing the rounds on the Cameron thread ,with some posters suggesting increased devolution for Scotland is not possible or 'fair' without addressing the West Lothian question.
Whilst in theory this might sound fair, there was no mention of any 'conditionality' in the Vow.
This Vow must have had a major impact on influencing the vote and whilst not legally enforceable, surely a promise signed by three party leaders has to be 'morally' binding.
If these three leaders Cameron, Milliband and Clegg cannot deliver collectively the votes required in Parliament to effect legislation to give the increased powers to Scotland ( without settlement of the West Lothian issue or any other conditionality) as they PROMISED , then surely all three of them should resign and a new referendum he held?

I agree. I thought "The Vow" was a huge mistake, but having made it they have to stick by it. A deceit of that magnitude would make the expenses scandal seem like an administrative error.

Again people are missing the point of all this, in order to enact the "Vow" a new act will have to be put before Parliament, English MP's are not going to allow it through without some fundamental concessions, Tory MP's will be content with the answer to the West Lothian question, i.e stopping Scottish MP's voting on English matters, Labour are in a blind panic , because it will effectively squeeze them out of power in England, so they are trying to kick it into the long grass with a proposed committee after the next general election, the Tories sensing the panic are upping the anti.

Cameron has played an absolute blinder here and I suspect that in the end Labour will have to concede

 

[Len Rum]

There are some posts on the 'Vow' signed by the three party leaders doing the rounds on the Cameron thread ,with some posters suggesting increased devolution for Scotland is not possible or 'fair' without addressing the West Lothian question.
Whilst in theory this might sound fair, there was no mention of any 'conditionality' in the Vow.
This Vow must have had a major impact on influencing the vote and whilst not legally enforceable, surely a promise signed by three party leaders has to be 'morally' binding.
If these three leaders Cameron, Milliband and Clegg cannot deliver collectively the votes required in Parliament to effect legislation to give the increased powers to Scotland ( without settlement of the West Lothian issue or any other conditionality) as they PROMISED , then surely all three of them should resign and a new referendum he held?

I agree. I thought "The Vow" was a huge mistake, but having made it they have to stick by it. A deceit of that magnitude would make the expenses scandal seem like an administrative error.

Again people are missing the point of all this, in order to enact the "Vow" a new act will have to be put before Parliament, English MP's are not going to allow it through without some fundamental concessions, Tory MP's will be content with the answer to the West Lothian question, i.e stopping Scottish MP's voting on English matters, Labour are in a blind panic , because it will effectively squeeze them out of power in England, so they are trying to kick it into the long grass with a proposed committee after the next general election, the Tories sensing the panic are upping the anti.

Cameron has played an absolute blinder here and I suspect that in the end Labour will have to concede

Sorry mate, but you're missing the point.
You are correct to say that English MPs are not going to allow the "Vow" to pass through Parliament without the "West Lothian" issue being resolved.
BUT the "Vow" was made and signed by all three party leaders WITHOUT ANY CONDITIONALITY being attached to the "Vow".
So if the three party leaders who made the UNCONDITIONAL "Vow" cannot collectively deliver it by a majority vote of their parties in Parliament they have to resign and arrange for a new referendum to take place.
However this is not going to happen so I can see more trouble brewing in Scotland if Devomax is not delivered in the promised timescale.
It seems to me that, without going into it in detail, the resolution of the West Lothian issue I.e. English MPs only voting on English issues will in fact ultimately lead to the eventual break up of the Uk.

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

Allowing 16 and 17 years to vote was a scandal which I hope is never repeated on these shores ever again.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

Glad it's all over. If they kick up a fuss again maybe they get another vote in 307 years time although I'd be tempted to tell them
forget it they're had their chance, As for "vows", what "vows"? A lot for shite gets promised during elections, it's rarely delivered.
Scotland will get extra powers when they are agreed upon nationally. I agree with a federal Britain and especially like the idea of
Devo Manc. Until that is all agreed the Jocks can get stuffed. Rushed legislation tends to be the wrong legislation. I'm relieved we
get to keep Trident based at Faslane, our seat on the Security Council and the oil. I'm also extremely glad, as I mentioned, that it
means it is likely Manchester will do well out of the resulting process of change. Other than what I've mentioned I've little interest
in Scotland or the Scots. I'm glad that they've voted to stay part of our "family of nations" but they can't expect special favours.
Well they might expect them but they won't get them. "Morality" doesn't come into politics: Alex Salmond also made promises he
couldn't have kept if he had won.

 

[Len Rum]

Glad it's all over. If they kick up a fuss again maybe they get another vote in 307 years time although I'd be tempted to tell them
forget it they're had their chance, As for "vows", what "vows"? A lot for shite gets promised during elections, it's rarely delivered.
Scotland will get extra powers when they are agreed upon nationally. I agree with a federal Britain and especially like the idea of
Devo Manc. Until that is all agreed the Jocks can get stuffed. Rushed legislation tends to be the wrong legislation. I'm relieved we
get to keep Trident based at Faslane, our seat on the Security Council and the oil. I'm also extremely glad, as I mentioned, that it
means it is likely Manchester will do well out of the resulting process of change. Other than what I've mentioned I've little interest
in Scotland or the Scots. I'm glad that they've voted to stay part of our "family of nations" but they can't expect special favours.
Well they might expect them but they won't get them. "Morality" doesn't come into politics: Alex Salmond also made promises he
couldn't have kept if he had won.

There needn't be a problem - the extra devo powers for Scotland are passed into legislation within the timescale PROMISED by the three party leaders. Chris Grayling the Tory Minister writing in the Telegraph today has stated this must happen.
Hopefully the West Lothian question can be resolved within the same timescale. If not then so be it, it would have to be delayed until after the General election.

 

[Ducado]

Glad it's all over. If they kick up a fuss again maybe they get another vote in 307 years time although I'd be tempted to tell them
forget it they're had their chance, As for "vows", what "vows"? A lot for shite gets promised during elections, it's rarely delivered.
Scotland will get extra powers when they are agreed upon nationally. I agree with a federal Britain and especially like the idea of
Devo Manc. Until that is all agreed the Jocks can get stuffed. Rushed legislation tends to be the wrong legislation. I'm relieved we
get to keep Trident based at Faslane, our seat on the Security Council and the oil. I'm also extremely glad, as I mentioned, that it
means it is likely Manchester will do well out of the resulting process of change. Other than what I've mentioned I've little interest
in Scotland or the Scots. I'm glad that they've voted to stay part of our "family of nations" but they can't expect special favours.
Well they might expect them but they won't get them. "Morality" doesn't come into politics: Alex Salmond also made promises he
couldn't have kept if he had won.

There needn't be a problem - the extra devo powers for Scotland are passed into legislation within the timescale PROMISED by the three party leaders. Chris Grayling the Tory Minister writing in the Telegraph today has stated this must happen.
Hopefully the West Lothian question can be resolved within the same timescale. If not then so be it, it would have to be delayed until after the General election.

Either way Labour are going to get destroyed because of this issue and the Lib Dems need too be clear as well

 

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

Glad it's all over. If they kick up a fuss again maybe they get another vote in 307 years time although I'd be tempted to tell them
forget it they're had their chance, As for "vows", what "vows"? A lot for shite gets promised during elections, it's rarely delivered.
Scotland will get extra powers when they are agreed upon nationally. I agree with a federal Britain and especially like the idea of
Devo Manc. Until that is all agreed the Jocks can get stuffed. Rushed legislation tends to be the wrong legislation. I'm relieved we
get to keep Trident based at Faslane, our seat on the Security Council and the oil. I'm also extremely glad, as I mentioned, that it
means it is likely Manchester will do well out of the resulting process of change. Other than what I've mentioned I've little interest
in Scotland or the Scots. I'm glad that they've voted to stay part of our "family of nations" but they can't expect special favours.
Well they might expect them but they won't get them. "Morality" doesn't come into politics: Alex Salmond also made promises he
couldn't have kept if he had won.

There needn't be a problem - the extra devo powers for Scotland are passed into legislation within the timescale PROMISED by the three party leaders. Chris Grayling the Tory Minister writing in the Telegraph today has stated this must happen.
Hopefully the West Lothian question can be resolved within the same timescale. If not then so be it, it would have to be delayed until after the General election.

Either way Labour are going to get destroyed because of this issue and the Lib Dems need too be clear as well

Let's hope Milliband is still the labour leader at the next election
He's great

 

[Len Rum]

Glad it's all over. If they kick up a fuss again maybe they get another vote in 307 years time although I'd be tempted to tell them
forget it they're had their chance, As for "vows", what "vows"? A lot for shite gets promised during elections, it's rarely delivered.
Scotland will get extra powers when they are agreed upon nationally. I agree with a federal Britain and especially like the idea of
Devo Manc. Until that is all agreed the Jocks can get stuffed. Rushed legislation tends to be the wrong legislation. I'm relieved we
get to keep Trident based at Faslane, our seat on the Security Council and the oil. I'm also extremely glad, as I mentioned, that it
means it is likely Manchester will do well out of the resulting process of change. Other than what I've mentioned I've little interest
in Scotland or the Scots. I'm glad that they've voted to stay part of our "family of nations" but they can't expect special favours.
Well they might expect them but they won't get them. "Morality" doesn't come into politics: Alex Salmond also made promises he
couldn't have kept if he had won.

There needn't be a problem - the extra devo powers for Scotland are passed into legislation within the timescale PROMISED by the three party leaders. Chris Grayling the Tory Minister writing in the Telegraph today has stated this must happen.
Hopefully the West Lothian question can be resolved within the same timescale. If not then so be it, it would have to be delayed until after the General election.

Either way Labour are going to get destroyed because of this issue and the Lib Dems need too be clear as well

You seem very excited about 'Labour being destroyed' rather than getting the constitutional issues resolved within the constraints set by leaders promises for Scotland and timescales for legislation on the wider UK issues.
If Labour is 'destroyed' so what?
The process has started and will continue.
Everyone can have a vote on it next May.

 

[Ducado]

There needn't be a problem - the extra devo powers for Scotland are passed into legislation within the timescale PROMISED by the three party leaders. Chris Grayling the Tory Minister writing in the Telegraph today has stated this must happen.
Hopefully the West Lothian question can be resolved within the same timescale. If not then so be it, it would have to be delayed until after the General election.

Either way Labour are going to get destroyed because of this issue and the Lib Dems need too be clear as well

You seem very excited about 'Labour being destroyed' rather than getting the constitutional issues resolved within the constraints set by leaders promises for Scotland and timescales for legislation on the wider UK issues.
If Labour is 'destroyed' so what?
The process has started and will continue.
Everyone can have a vote on it next May.

Not at all, but if you are interested in politics as I am you can see a smart move by the Tories either way Labour are backed into a corner and from what I see are not explaining themselves very well