Scottish Independence

[Gabriel]

I think they'l lose a fair few if not most.

The 2017 election was for the Tories in Scotland what 2015 was for the SNP - the stars aligning.

In 2015, SNP had the pick of independence wishful being disappointed, protest votes of those feeling let down by other main parties making and then quickly forgetting big promises, and those that Would vote snp but don't because they are against independence, thinking the issue was put to bed switching over.

In 2017, the Tories had the protest vote to the SNP. That earlier landslide election win, many of their MPs (fair few first timers) acted like twats in Westminster, with the selfies, the bravado, etc etc. Pissed a few right off. Jumping the indyref2 gun straight after brexit backfired too. Some thought it was done, didn't want to revisit it, and some that did, were just so fatigued. It was way to soon.
On top of that, lib-dems lost all credibility in the 2015 elections, Kezzia Dugdale openly advocated tactical voting to keep the snp out even at the expense of her own struggling party. And Ruth Davidson, fresh off the back of some honest and passionate very well performed anti-brexit campaigning offered something a bit new. With her supposed 'scotland first' attitude, she emphasised the 'Scottish' in Scottish Conservatives and convinced(tricked) a few that she wouldn't always toe the party politics from Westminster, but would prioritise Scotland's interests.

Theresa May might have got that election call wrong overall, but she absolutely nailed the timing in Scotland.

I personally can't see the Tories retaining many of those seats. Not all will be lost to SNP either, some will go to the lib-dems.
But as always in UK politics, nothing ould surprise me. (apart from when it does).

Suppose a great deal will depend when an election falls and what shape/stage Brexit is in at that point. If it looks highly unfavourable to Scotland, then I can see the Scottish Conservatives losing perhaps ten of the thirteen seats. Bowie, Lamont, and Mundell currently enjoy majorities that should be defendable, but if farming areas deem the Brexit deal as damaging to both their businesses and communities, then even these MPs could be under threat. The true effect of Davidson's standing down may only be apparent after the dust settles.

Brexit should have been a gift to the SNP, especially a No Deal one, but with that looking less likely, and Sturgeon having to strike a balance between realpolitik and appeasing the more visceral voters, then it is not clear how the situation will develop.

 

[Rascal]

hmmmm...

written of course about a period of history when the United Kingdom didn't exist and the two nations were at war. To be fair we get enough of that up here without the English joining in!

I just liked the poem :)

 

[Coatigan]

Granted, Scotland is "sepperatism for the sake of internationalism" whereas Brexit is more "splendid isolationist". For me the "little Englander" term more denotes a mentallity to reject for example European internationalism in favour of a more domestic "island-ish" identity, granted that this would be on top of and enforce a view of Brits just wanting to do bloody everything differently even when it comes to damn units of measurement or what lane you drive on, i guess you could also call it "special Britain". In that regard then the Scots are not "little scots" because the incentive does not relate to opportunist isolationism but rather their wish not to be forced out of a larger family of nations.

There is certaintly a very wide and significant gradation to nationalism, ranging in it's most extreme to a ideoligy that started 2 world wars and killed more than 100 million last century up to the often very reasonable wishes of self determination of people feeling in some way opressed like say "the American revlolution". I'd still warn against the dangers of natioalism because it's easily done wrong with potential disasterous results, however as comming from a people who have needed to break themselves free from some form of opression i cannot comdemn all forms of seperatism neither. There are also many nations that manage to be "reasonably nationalistic" in an arguable way and for what regards Scotland imho their seperatism is for the right reason as long as the UK doesn't perceive Scotland as a "Equal partner in the Union" and/or Brexit pulls them out of the EU against their wish.

I can even make a distinction here as to Scottish nationalism just "how far" it should or should not go. Yes to seeking independance trough legalist means, and no to organising millitia's for example well i guess one gets that point. Because sepperatism in Great Britain might potentionaly also lead to idiots picking up guns and sniping eachother at the border.

Interesting read.

FYI, the Scots too aee guilty of sticking to oyr own measurement units.

 

[Ban-jani]

match means, and I quote, 'equal to something in quality or strength'.

Now will you please give your head a wobble as you are embarrassing yourself.

No, it blatantly meant that they match their single policy and you knew that but decided to be a nob head because your backs up.

You cannot continue with the anti English shite and expect everyone to lap it up, that’s what the SNP do.

 

[Rascal]

No, it blatantly meant that they match their single policy and you knew that but decided to be a nob head because your backs up.

You cannot continue with the anti English shite and expect everyone to lap it up, that’s what the SNP do.

Why is wanting independence anti-English?

 

[Ban-jani]

Too many posters are quoting me with war and peace and I’ve got to get on a flight soon.

@Rascal @Coatigan @Saddleworth2

The SNP have made a pig’s ear of running Scotland and that’s because they’re pretty much a single policy party and that single policy is a nationalistic breakaway from a 300 year old union.

This is based on a dislike of London and it’s politics, akin to that of UKIP and their dislike of Brussels and the EU.

The SNP want independence at ALL COSTS. They did before Brexit or the referendum was even called, when nationalism in England wasn’t as prevalent and they will if they lose the next referendum.

Do they have any idea of what terms they’ll leave or even what currency, whether they’ll be a border or how they will trade with the UK, what the rights of Scots living in England will have, whether the EU will actually accept them and how long the process will take?

NO, they don’t have a fucking clue, it’s leave the UK on whatever terms they can and they’ll do it waving flags and singing songs from centuries ago.

It’s ideological nationalism and it stinks.

 

[Ban-jani]

Why is wanting independence anti-English?

Did you miss the debates the last time they went for independence?

George fucking Galloway of all people had to defend England and tell Scottish voters and the SNP, live on tele that the English don’t oppress Scottish people.

They lie through their back teeth to convince young Scottish voters its the 900’s.

 

[Rascal]

Did you miss the debates the last time they went for independence?

George fucking Galloway of all people had to defend England and tell Scottish voters and the SNP, live on tele that the English don’t oppress Scottish people.

They lie through their back teeth to convince young Scottish voters its the 900’s.

He must be doing a good job as Bannockburn wasn't until 1314. Galloway is also against Catalan independence btw, it is contrary to his position on the EU, but then gorgeous makes a living by being a contrarian.

Are you still convinced UKIP and the SNP are two sides of the same coin?

 

[Rascal]

Too many posters are quoting me with war and peace and I’ve got to get on a flight soon.

@Rascal @Coatigan @Saddleworth2

The SNP have made a pig’s ear of running Scotland and that’s because they’re pretty much a single policy party and that single policy is a nationalistic breakaway from a 300 year old union.

This is based on a dislike of London and it’s politics, akin to that of UKIP and their dislike of Brussels and the EU.

The SNP want independence at ALL COSTS. They did before Brexit or the referendum was even called, when nationalism in England wasn’t as prevalent and they will if they lose the next referendum.

Do they have any idea of what terms they’ll leave or even what currency, whether they’ll be a border or how they will trade with the UK, what the rights of Scots living in England will have, whether the EU will actually accept them and how long the process will take?

NO, they don’t have a fucking clue, it’s leave the UK on whatever terms they can and they’ll do it waving flags and singing songs from centuries ago.

It’s ideological nationalism and it stinks.

You are getting mixed up between nationalism and independence, I explained the difference to you.

If they vote for independence it is their business, if it goes tits up, its their business, if its a roaring success it is their business.

It is up to them as they are a separate nation and their wishes should be respected whatever the outcome.

Enjoy your flight, are you flying to Aberdeen?

 

[Ban-jani]

He must be doing a good job as Bannockburn wasn't until 1314. Galloway is also against Catalan independence btw, it is contrary to his position on the EU, but then gorgeous makes a living by being a contrarian.

Are you still convinced UKIP and the SNP are two sides of the same coin?

I didn’t know Bannockburn was the only conflict that took place between the English and Scots but thanks for the pedantic tone.

Yes he’s a total nob but that was why I used him, it took him to defend us up there.

Yes they are still two sides of the same coin.

Are UKIP more odious? Yes

Are they more bigoted? Yes

Do the SNP, despite being useless at implementing them effectively, have similar domestic policies to my views? Yes

But they’re still in the same group of nationalistic ideologies and they’re still almost single policy parties and both want to implement that policy whatever the cost.