Scottish Independence

[Metal Biker]

Independence support is higher than SNP polling,some SNP support doesnt support independence, though he Greens support it too. Make of that what you will, it's getting way from what we were talking about which is how to reverse the growng support for independence.

Simple answer, you can't. What will happen, will happen.

I'm talking about how the SNP needs to start being more honest about it's identity, and that those who vote for the SNP can no longer be assumed to not want independence if they support SNP, because right now the party appears "vague".

You couldn't look at someone who voted UKIP and be surprised when they stated they supported remaining in the EU and voted BP because they were concerned about the NHS and potholes. If the SNP is the party of independence it needs to publicly proclaim that it is, change it's identity to one supporting that sole single issue, because it's confusing the rest of us what the SNP voters want from the party they support.

 

[Metal Biker]

Ironically its the same %'s as the Brexit vote ............which had to be honoured .......... because Democracy

Correct, it did.

But that was an election result, not a sample poll. Are we to start "honouring" the result of "sample polls" now? LOL.

 

[blueparrot]

If the SNP is the party of independence it needs to publicly proclaim that it is, change it's identity to one supporting that sole single issue, because it's confusing the rest of us what the SNP voters want from the party they support.

It isn't a single issue party, and it doesn't confuse anyone whatever their veiws or how they vote around where I live.

 

[Metal Biker]

They differ to me but there are similar principles.

It’s no secret that I’m opposed to Brexit but my opposition to Brexit is about 10% of my opposition to Scottish independence, as an idea.

Calling it Brexit on steroids, as I have done in the past, doesn’t really do the scale of colossal stupidity that is Scottish independence justice.

Not only does it weaken the UK and the economy in England, that affects me (the selfish reasons out the way), but more importantly it will destroy the Scottish economy and social fabric to the point many will end up in abject poverty.

This may sound like scaremongering and Scottish nationals might reply with their own version of “project fear” but it’s genuinely what I believe.

No idea on currency, no central bank, a border (which is inevitable), no funding for infrastructure from the rest of the nation, no army, a new police force, being out of both the EU and UK for several years, RBS and other Scottish institutions moving south and many more.

This is the reality on Independence Day for Scotland. They won’t be able to join the EU and maintain a close relationship with England. It’s an independent Scotland that has soft arrangements with England and that’s outside the EU or an independent Scotland that’s inside the EU but has a clean break from England.

My opinion is that triggering Article 50 should be the right and should be reasonable for any EU nation to do. Scottish independence isn’t reasonable in any way shape or form.

There are so many parallels between the EU referendum and the Scottish Referendum, I always maintain the IndyRef as a "trial run".

I do feel that our own political system needs an overhaul; an independent English Parliament, reform of the House of Lords, Westminster to be A seat of power for the UK, which can be alternated between Holyrood, Senedd etc. But that's just my own feeling.

If our Union is meant to be a "union", then the emphasis on England does need softening a little, but as a result that means the English MUST have it's own Parliament.
I feel that once the UK has established it's future relationship with the EU, either deal (preferred) or WTO (not) and the outcome for NI, then the people of Scotland will have their clear vision on it's union with the rest of the UK. A debate should at least be had, but I feel now isn't the time, unlike Sturgeon who's going in both feet first.

 

[Metal Biker]

It isn't a single issue party, and it doesn't confuse anyone whatever their veiws or how they vote around where I live.

SO why does the SNP continue to present the notion that their success in the election is "evidence" that Scotland is in favour of independence?

 

[mexico1970]

Correct, it did.

But that was an election result, not a sample poll. Are we to start "honouring" the result of "sample polls" now? LOL.

The polls on the last GE and the actual Brexit referendum were well out of whack, proving that polls are useless. Honouring a referendum doesn't mean retaking it because it didn't go a certain way either.
The SNP would have been calling for a 2nd referendum even if we'd have voted to stay in the EU, and if they lost that they would have pushed for another vote, only if they got a win would that referendum be honoured by them.

 

[blueparrot]

There are so many parallels between the EU referendum and the Scottish Referendum, I always maintain the IndyRef as a "trial run".

I do feel that our own political system needs an overhaul; an independent English Parliament, reform of the House of Lords, Westminster to be A seat of power for the UK, which can be alternated between Holyrood, Senedd etc. But that's just my own feeling.

If our Union is meant to be a "union", then the emphasis on England does need softening a little, but as a result that means the English MUST have it's own Parliament.
I feel that once the UK has established it's future relationship with the EU, either deal (preferred) or WTO (not) and the outcome for NI, then the people of Scotland will have their clear vision on it's union with the rest of the UK. A debate should at least be had, but I feel now isn't the time, unlike Sturgeon who's going in both feet first.

I actually agree with most of that.

 

[blueparrot]

SO why does the SNP continue to present the notion that their success in the election is "evidence" that Scotland is in favour of independence?

They didn't they present it as evidence for a referendum. I think they are wrong in that. However if it's stated in their manifesto for the 2021 Scottish elections and they win a majority.( they don't have one now by the way) then they have the right to hold a vote for a referendum in the new parliament.

 

[Ban-jani]

They didn't they present it as evidence for a referendum. I think they are wrong in that. However if it's stated in their manifesto for the 2021 Scottish elections and they win a majority.( they don't have one now by the way) then they have the right to hold a vote for a referendum in the new parliament.

I don’t think they do. They are still apart of the UK and benefit from being so. It’s not their right to undermine, destabilise and ruin trade negotiations that the rest of the UK need, due to their own nationalist agenda. If they really want independence, then they need to wait until Brexit has completed and the UK has had adequate chance to negotiate and agree deals with those it wishes to trade with.

You won’t like this but in my opinion anything before 2030 is wholly unreasonable.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Correct, it did.

But that was an election result, not a sample poll. Are we to start "honouring" the result of "sample polls" now? LOL.

Election result? You mean advisory referendum don’t you?