Scottish Independence

Just came out of a great talk with John Curtice at my work. When asked, made a good point about the forthcoming Holyrood elections will be interesting as a landslide would give them the mandate, and there is precedence for this in 2011.

Also, made a good point about the 'once in a generation' line. It's a line used by politicians, not voters. If the SNP are smart they'll play for time and use the narrative that Westminster is denying us our chance to change our mind, and if Boris is smart, he'd call it now, as polling suggests there is enough uncertainty that might persuade people not to take any perceived risk.

With regards to the once in a generation line, said the same thing about Brexit, and the Tories facing a potential cliff, albeit in 10 years time and have plenty of time for things to change.

Any Prime Minister that calls one now should be ousted from office and thrown in the stocks.

It would severely undermine our negotiations with the EU and wider world and practically ruin the UK’s chance of making Brexit any sort of relative success.

Add to that the independence movement will die down once Brexit settles. Many in Scotland are upset at Brexit currently and the fact it’s 52% in the polls makes bleak reading at this point, for Scottish nationalists.
 
Is that because we need Scotland economically, or the break up of the Union would mean Brexit is failure?

Both of those but the main thing is; imagine being in a trade negotiation with another nation, looking to set up an agreement and a quarter of their country suddenly breaks away, in the middle of that and forms a new independent state.

It’d throw the talks into chaos and give you a huge upper hand.

It’s why, as well as him purely not wanting them to, Johnson will never call IndyRef2.
 
Both of those but the main thing is; imagine being in a trade negotiation with another nation, looking to set up an agreement and a quarter of their country suddenly breaks away, in the middle of that and forms a new independent state.

It’d throw the talks into chaos and give you a huge upper hand.

It’s why, as well as him purely not wanting them to, Johnson will never call IndyRef2.

True, but it's a bit of a gamble either way. If the SNP can successfully get the message across that Boris isn't listening to them, the direction of travel is that support for independence will grow
 
True, but it's a bit of a gamble either way. If the SNP can successfully get the message across that Boris isn't listening to them, the direction of travel is that support for independence will grow

People tend to get fed up midterm and once Brexit has settled and most people have moved on, the 52% will likely shrink.

Add to that the bare facts of being outside the UK and EU, that Scotland will no doubt need to face. Once people learn of this they will switch, I’m sure. At the moment Sturgeon is getting away with lying to everyone it’s a straight UK or EU choice for Scotland.
 
There are so many parallels between the EU referendum and the Scottish Referendum, I always maintain the IndyRef as a "trial run".

I do feel that our own political system needs an overhaul; an independent English Parliament, reform of the House of Lords, Westminster to be A seat of power for the UK, which can be alternated between Holyrood, Senedd etc. But that's just my own feeling.

If our Union is meant to be a "union", then the emphasis on England does need softening a little, but as a result that means the English MUST have it's own Parliament.
I feel that once the UK has established it's future relationship with the EU, either deal (preferred) or WTO (not) and the outcome for NI, then the people of Scotland will have their clear vision on it's union with the rest of the UK. A debate should at least be had, but I feel now isn't the time, unlike Sturgeon who's going in both feet first.

I can agree with that. As part of said overhaul, every one of the four countries has an equal say, on UK wide matters and international issues. Irrsspective of size or parliament bulk. like a true union.
 
The polls on the last GE and the actual Brexit referendum were well out of whack, proving that polls are useless. Honouring a referendum doesn't mean retaking it because it didn't go a certain way either.
The SNP would have been calling for a 2nd referendum even if we'd have voted to stay in the EU, and if they lost that they would have pushed for another vote, only if they got a win would that referendum be honoured by them.

That may well be true. But they'd have no leg to stsnd on, whatsoever. And i doubt there would have been any appetite either.

As it stands though, btexit has significantly affected all the reasons to merit the question being re-examined, so soon after the last one. I'm nit saying that as aomething i want, but something i cant argue the logic and the situation of.

And there certainly has been an increase in appetite, without a shred of a doubt. I'm not basing that on the three polls i the last two weeks that all back it up, but on the change in mood. Probably not enough, but certainly noticeable.
 
I know I’m not the only one who can accept that my vote went against the losing option and I have to accept that and man up but there’s far too many who don’t have that view.

That's a bit presumptuous. i'm sure you are not the only one. but credit either way, you have indeed.
 
Just came out of a great talk with John Curtice at my work. When asked, made a good point about the forthcoming Holyrood elections will be interesting as a landslide would give them the mandate, and there is precedence for this in 2011.

Also, made a good point about the 'once in a generation' line. It's a line used by politicians, not voters. If the SNP are smart they'll play for time and use the narrative that Westminster is denying us our chance to change our mind, and if Boris is smart, he'd call it now, as polling suggests there is enough uncertainty that might persuade people not to take any perceived risk.

With regards to the once in a generation line, said the same thing about Brexit, and the Tories facing a potential cliff, albeit in 10 years time and have plenty of time for things to change.

Pretty much exactly what a few of us on here have been saying.
 

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