hilts
Well-Known Member
As a leaver we were told we didn’t know what we voted for, how do you feel this relates to a Scottish ref. Can I presume neither Nicola or Scottish Eu remainers ever used this line?
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Scottish Independence
- Thread starter Gray
- Start date
As a leaver we were told we didn’t know what we voted for, how do you feel this relates to a Scottish ref. Can I presume neither Nicola or Scottish Eu remainers ever used this line?
hilts
Well-Known Member
Which union do the people of Scotland wish to belong; the UK union or the European union.
Fair's fair. But as you say, and I cannot emphasise this enough; POST-brexit.
I agree, as of now and certainly short term there has been no fundamental change since the last one.
As a leaver we were told we didn’t know what we voted for, how do you feel this relates to a Scottish ref. Can I presume neither Nicola or Scottish Eu remainers never used this line?
They were told by us that staying in the UK was the only way to stay in the EU, which is a line they’ve justifiably used post Brexit referendum
Churchlawtonblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 14,857
Make them manage on the same money that the north of England has to work with. Surely that is fair. Ie a reduction of 20% Then give them the vote.I think the fairest thing to do is give Scotland its referendum post Brexit.
I agree, as of now and certainly short term there has been no fundamental change since the last one.
well with Brexit getting done now, in less than a matter of weeks, we can expect the question sometime soon too.
And note, my arguing the validity of the point isnt my saying that is what i want.
hilts
Well-Known Member
They were told by us that staying in the UK was the only way to stay in the EU, which is a line they’ve justifiably used post Brexit referendum
We are currently in the EU.
hilts
Well-Known Member
well with Brexit getting done now, in less than a matter of weeks, we can expect the question sometime soon too.
And note, my arguing the validity of the point isnt my saying that is what i want.
If brexit gets done in 12 months or 24 months a referendum 12 months after that seems fair to me. I wouldn’t want to keep Scotland in a union and refusing them a choice too long will only make the decision to leave more likely.
I can see in 5 years time a United ireland and an independent Scotland. The Irish one makes perfect sense the Scottish one is very much open to debate.
hilts
Well-Known Member
How long after though? Too soon and it could be a real 'Scottish Tragedy'. Trapped in grinding poverty as a remote and unloved EU satellite behind a new Hadrian's wall - pitied by an unexpectedly successful and independent UK.
Im a great believer in self determination with the last ref and the new one(as long as it’s post brexit) the good people of Scotland will have as much info as they are ever likely to get. They then can make their choIce. If they decide to leave I hope it’s a great success for them. If we never changed direction because we never knew exactly where it led nothing would ever change.
The only scenario where I think we should block it would be if they didn’t pay the divorce bill. I heard one SNP bloke say it’s a U.K. debt not a Scottish one. I hope he isn’t indicating what I think he is.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
The SNP demand for a second referendum is based on the premise that the status quo is no longer accepted by the Scottish people. That their case for independence has now been made as a consequence of Brexit. The government argues the 2014 verdict should continue to be respected and a reasonable period of time is needed for Scotland's population to assess the impact on them of a new economic and political landscape in any future determination. I don't see that position as thwarting the wishes of the Scots - it is just taking account of the wider interests of the whole country and trying to reduce instability in the inevitably uncertain trading environment that lies ahead .Maybe. But that decision is for the Scots to make, and the Scottish parliament, and those they elect to represent them.
I think it’s fair Scotland get their referendum now we are effectively out of Europe.
Would they be allowed back in? If so their contributions may have to increase possibly making it financially impractical to rejoin. The EU could make big demands on Scotland’s agricultural finances.
Would they pay for the defence services and as there are Nuclear bases in Scotland what would happen to them? Sturgeon is opposed to Nuclear defence and has said she would never “press the button”. I guess she would would rely on her big brother the UK to protect the country, at what cost? The removal of Nuclear facilities can take years to complete, the Nuclear reactor plant at Dounreay is currently being decommissioned at a cost of around £4b but won’t be a brownfield site until around 2300, who pays for that?
I think she will be Scotland’s first PM but will not last more than one term, however long that may be.
Would they be allowed back in? If so their contributions may have to increase possibly making it financially impractical to rejoin. The EU could make big demands on Scotland’s agricultural finances.
Would they pay for the defence services and as there are Nuclear bases in Scotland what would happen to them? Sturgeon is opposed to Nuclear defence and has said she would never “press the button”. I guess she would would rely on her big brother the UK to protect the country, at what cost? The removal of Nuclear facilities can take years to complete, the Nuclear reactor plant at Dounreay is currently being decommissioned at a cost of around £4b but won’t be a brownfield site until around 2300, who pays for that?
I think she will be Scotland’s first PM but will not last more than one term, however long that may be.