Shamima Begum

[Iassel]

A UK tribunal accepted arguments by UK lawyers that she had Bangladeshi citizenship before turning 21, but ultimately the only authority on who is and isn’t a Bangladeshi citizen is the government and courts of Bangladesh and they have been unequivocal that you have the right to Bengali citizenship if your parent is born there, you don’t automatically have the citizenship.

You’ve acknowledged but skipped over the key point there - possibly accidentally, possibly deliberately - she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship, she just has to apply for it, so she is wilfully stateless at this point.

Of course, she doesn’t want Bangladeshi citizenship as they’ve made clear she will be tried for her alleged crimes and executed if/when found guilty.

Instead she is now applying for Dutch citizenship by marriage, which she is not entitled to but is pursuing as it’s her only route now out of Syria that wouldn’t see her face capital punishment if found guilty of her alleged crimes.

 

[west didsblue]

wrong I'm afraid, you can't be left without a citizenship as that's illegal, UK stripped her at the time she had dual citizenship therefore still had a citizenship in a different country. That different country can't now strip it away I'm afraid.

She didn’t have dual citizenship. She was entitled to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship but hadn’t, and although she would normally be granted citizenship under jus sanguinis, in this case the Bangladeshi government have publicly stated she would be refused if she did apply for it. Perhaps you need to do a bit of research yourself.

 

[mexico1970]

She didn’t have dual citizenship. She was entitled to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship but hadn’t, and although she would normally be granted citizenship under jus sanguinis, in this case the Bangladeshi government have publicly stated she would be refused if she did apply for it. Perhaps you need to do a bit of research yourself.

Moot point judges made the call, I will go with the judges decision on this one.

The court also held that Javid had acted lawfully even if it meant Begum, now 24, was effectively stateless – because she theoretically held Bangladeshi citizenship, which applied up to her 21st birthday, at the time of his decision in 2019.

Shamima Begum loses appeal against removal of British citizenship

Lawyers sought to overturn ruling last year that revocation of her citizenship was lawful

www.theguardian.com

 

[BobKowalski]

wrong I'm afraid, you can't be left without a citizenship as that's illegal, UK stripped her at the time she had dual citizenship therefore still had a citizenship in a different country. That different country can't now strip it away I'm afraid.

So, the ability to strip citizenship is a race to see who can do it first, even if the other country isn’t aware it’s a race? Charming.

Last time I looked Bangladesh has claimed she is not a Bangladeshi citizen. Whether that claim would stand up in Bangladeshi courts remains to be seen and unless Begrum challenges the Bangladeshi Govt that is still the position. The UK asserts she does have Bangladeshi citizenship so is the UK now interpreting Bangladeshi law on behalf of Bangladesh? A somewhat colonial attitude but there you go.

Anyway, to recap. Not a UK citizen. Not a Bangladeshi citizen. Note: The UK stating she is a Bangladeshi citizen doesn’t actually make her one. That decision is for the Bangladeshi Govt and courts. Sovereignty and all that.

 

[BobKowalski]

Moot point judges made the call, I will go with the judges decision on this one.

Shamima Begum loses appeal against removal of British citizenship

Lawyers sought to overturn ruling last year that revocation of her citizenship was lawful

www.theguardian.com

UK judges asserting and interpreting Bangladeshi law on behalf of Bangladesh and in this case contrary to the Bangladeshi Govt?

Dude, ever heard of sovereignty?

 

[mexico1970]

UK judges asserting and interpreting Bangladeshi law on behalf of Bangladesh and in this case contrary to the Bangladeshi Govt?

Dude, ever heard of sovereignty?

I don't care about Bangladesh, argue with the law these judges made the decision for us.

And it was the right call.

 

[meltonblue]

You’ve acknowledged but skipped over the key point there - possibly accidentally, possibly deliberately - she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship, she just has to apply for it, so she is wilfully stateless at this point.

Of course, she doesn’t want Bangladeshi citizenship as they’ve made clear she will be tried for her alleged crimes and executed if/when found guilty.

Instead she is now applying for Dutch citizenship by marriage, which she is not entitled to but is pursuing as it’s her only route now out of Syria that wouldn’t see her face capital punishment if found guilty of her alleged crimes.

Your first paragraph should be past tense, that was all true at the point Javid made his decision.

 

[Corky]

If you have no citizenship you can apply to any country to become a refugee.

Happens with stateless nomads.

 

[GornikDaze]

If you have no citizenship you can apply to any country to become a refugee.

Happens with stateless nomads.

Scousers?

 

[Brewster's millions]

Scousers?

A lot of Scousers say they aren’t British, so you could well be right with this.

 

[mexico1970]

A lot of Scousers say they aren’t British, so you could well be right with this.

It's the English they don't claim to be a part of mate, which is factually correct considering most are Irish/Scandinavians.

 

[west didsblue]

One amusing consequence is that the government can’t use the lefty lawyers scuppering the will of the people soundbite.

 

[domalino]

You’ve acknowledged but skipped over the key point there - possibly accidentally, possibly deliberately - she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship, she just has to apply for it, so she is wilfully stateless at this point.

Of course, she doesn’t want Bangladeshi citizenship as they’ve made clear she will be tried for her alleged crimes and executed if/when found guilty.

Instead she is now applying for Dutch citizenship by marriage, which she is not entitled to but is pursuing as it’s her only route now out of Syria that wouldn’t see her face capital punishment if found guilty of her alleged crimes.

No she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship until she turned 21 without it. Now she is 24 she has no entitlement to it.

Thats why she’s applying for Dutch citizenship.

 

[Iassel]

No she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship until she turned 21 without it. Now she is 24 she has no entitlement to it.

Thats why she’s applying for Dutch citizenship.

But as you’re aware, she has been in the UN camp in Syria since she was 19. She had ample time to apply for the Bangladeshi citizenship but decided not to, as it would be a death sentence to go there.

 

[domalino]

But as you’re aware, she has been in the UN camp in Syria since she was 19. She had ample time to apply for the Bangladeshi citizenship but decided not to, as it would be a death sentence to go there.

You seem to have completely changed from “She is a Bangladeshi citizen” to “she isn’t but could have been 5 years ago if she wanted to”.

 

[Iassel]

You seem to have completely changed from “She is a Bangladeshi citizen” to “she isn’t but could have been 5 years ago if she wanted to”.

Eh? I’ve never said anywhere she’s a Bangladeshi citizen - the argument that the governments lawyers have used and been deemed correct so far is that she had the right to be and so would not be made stateless.

To get a bit Gen Z, she’s in the finding out stage of fucking around.

 

[domalino]

Eh? I’ve never said anywhere she’s a Bangladeshi citizen - the argument that the governments lawyers have used and been deemed correct so far is that she had the right to be and so would not be made stateless.

To get a bit Gen Z, she’s in the finding out stage of fucking around.

Sorry, you’re correct, you went from lecturing me on how I’d forgotten “she can get it whenever she applies” to accepting she can’t and that was all bollocks.

Hard to keep track when people keep saying blatantly wrong shit and then changing their minds.

As for your fantasy about her being executed in Bangladesh, it’s just a fantasy. She’s not committed any crimes while in Bangladesh or as a Bangladeshi citizen.

 

[Iassel]

As for your fantasy about her being executed in Bangladesh, it’s just a fantasy. She’s not committed any crimes while in Bangladesh or as a Bangladeshi citizen.

Interesting that you say she wouldn’t be executed in Bangladesh when the Bangladeshi foreign minister said that infact if she came to Bangladesh she *would* be tried for terrorism offences and if found guilty given the death penalty…

Strange that you believe the Bangladeshi’s when they say she would have to apply to become a citizen but don’t believe them when they say they’d put her on trial and execute her….

As you say ‘Hard to keep track when people keep saying blatantly wrong shit’…

 

[domalino]

Interesting that you say she wouldn’t be executed in Bangladesh when the Bangladeshi foreign minister said that infact if she came to Bangladesh she *would* be tried for terrorism offences and if found guilty given the death penalty…

Strange that you believe the Bangladeshi’s when they say she would have to apply to become a citizen but don’t believe them when they say they’d put her on trial and execute her….

As you say ‘Hard to keep track when people keep saying blatantly wrong shit’…

Believing the Bangladeshi courts and government is not the same as believing everything every Bangladeshi politician says.

Overall I have high levels of trust in the UK government as an entity, that’s not the same as believing everything Boris Johnson or Kemi Badendoch says is gospel.

Bangladesh would have no jurisdiction to try her for crimes that didn’t happen in Bangladesh or were not carried out by a Bangladeshi citizen - which she was not.

 

[hilts]

Interesting that you say she wouldn’t be executed in Bangladesh when the Bangladeshi foreign minister said that infact if she came to Bangladesh she *would* be tried for terrorism offences and if found guilty given the death penalty…

Strange that you believe the Bangladeshi’s when they say she would have to apply to become a citizen but don’t believe them when they say they’d put her on trial and execute her….

As you say ‘Hard to keep track when people keep saying blatantly wrong shit’…

People are so all over the place on this it's hilarious, we could see a new thing where a poster may reply and argue against themselves.