Shamima Begum

I recently listened to the whole I'm not a monster "The Shamima Begum Story" podcast....and watched the related documentary.....very interesting and worth a listen...the podcast in particular. Its not a simple, black and white story.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
I recently listened to the whole I'm not a monster "The Shamima Begum Story" podcast....and watched the related documentary.....very interesting and worth a listen...the podcast in particular. Its not a simple, black and white story.
Click to expand...
It never is.

Sadly the people/media with certain ideology use it to rile their bases into panicking the government of the day to do something about it.

Thanks for the heads up on the podcast. I'll give it a listen.
 
Imagine being the father of Saffie Rose, the 8yr old killed at the Manchester Bombing and hearing this piece of shit saying the Manchester terror attack was justified due to what is happening in syria.

Unfortunately, you have to take responsibility for the things you say, i wonder what the families of the 22 people murdered that night would say if she were to come back and live amongst us?
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
How so?
Click to expand...
There's no getting away from the fact that yes, she left the UK to join ISIS in Syria....she was 15 and naive.
Once in Turkey there was never a chance of them returning home, as soon as they were in the control of their handlers, whether they had regrets or changed their minds, they were never getting out.
Imprisoned in a house full of unmarried women she was quickly married....had 2 miscarriages and subsequently lost 3 children to illness/starvation.
The promise of an Islamic Utopia was a lie and life was harsh and brutal.

I think theres a perception that she/they ran off to become front line fighters, cutting off heads and burning people alive...but thats not really the case. Home situation, sense of identity, religious beliefs and the fact another friend had already travelled, and was in contact with them to say how wonderful it was over there meant they had "justification" for at least trying to get there and live in this Islamic Utopia

What a lot of people are most offended/horrified by are her subsequent comments....and until i listened to the podcast etc...i had only ever read them in the press. They were insensitive at best and utterly abhorrent at worst.....but one of the investigators made a couple of good points....

...at the time she made the comments about the Manchester bomb she was in a refugee camp where there were hundreds of militant/radical islamists and to be seen or heard speaking against ISIS etc could lead to death.
He says that he was not surprised and in fact expected her to speak in that way....she was now 19, had lived in ISIS for 4 years and thats how they talked about the "West"....she was desperate to save her newly born child having lost 2 already as well as 2 miscarriages....she was hoping that meeting journalists and highlighting her story might help her get home, but mindful that what she said would be used against her in the camps.

I am in no way condoning her joining ISIS...nor her comments....but i struggle with the removing of her citizenship and not dealing with her in the UK.
Yes, there has to be a deterrent to stop others attempting the same journey....but leaving her and others in those camps is not the answer.
Those camps are now full of kids and young adults who know nothing more of that life....yet again "we" are creating a new generation of terrorists.

Thats why i think its not a black and white story
 
Man-chester copperpot said:
Imagine being the father of Saffie Rose, the 8yr old killed at the Manchester Bombing and hearing this piece of shit saying the Manchester terror attack was justified due to what is happening in syria.

Unfortunately, you have to take responsibility for the things you say, i wonder what the families of the 22 people murdered that night would say if she were to come back and live amongst us?
Click to expand...
Mate, i get it and fully understand what youre saying...and i dont necessarily disagree.

But she wasnt responsible for that and she should be tried and punished for whatever she actually did
 
TinFoilHat said:
It never is.

Sadly the people/media with certain ideology use it to rile their bases into panicking the government of the day to do something about it.

Thanks for the heads up on the podcast. I'll give it a listen.
Click to expand...
www.bbc.co.uk

BBC Sounds - I'm Not a Monster - Available Episodes

Listen to the latest episodes of I'm Not a Monster on BBC Sounds.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

I recommend listening to the whole thing, stick with it...its quite long...but i changed my mind and opinions a number times throughout!!
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
Mate, i get it and fully understand what youre saying...and i dont necessarily disagree.

But she wasnt responsible for that and she should be tried and punished for whatever she actually did
Click to expand...
She was 19 when she said this so the “she’s a child” excuse cannot be used

You know more than me.
Let’s look at the best thing that can come from her returning.
We know she will be given a new identity etc…..with social media, it will be like a whitchhunt - it will cause a shitstorm.

Also from what you have read/listened to, do you think she would be given a prison sentence if she came back?(as as far as i’m aware she hasn’t harmed anyone)

Do you think she could possibly do some good back here and help stop teenagers/adults from being radicalised from past experience?
 
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AlexWilliamsGloves said:
Mate, i get it and fully understand what youre saying...and i dont necessarily disagree.

But she wasnt responsible for that and she should be tried and punished for whatever she actually did
Click to expand...
Like how she was complicit in helping commit acts of terror, thought nothing of beheaded victims heads lying in trash heaps, was confirmed sighted at a terrorist training camp by the Yazidi women who were raped and tortured there? The same Yazidi women survivors who state her 'new persona' is fake? And you believe this monster?

She committed those crimes in Syria, she must face Syrian justice.
 
Man-chester copperpot said:
I just get a bit upset over the comment.
She was 19 when she said this.

You know more than me.
Let’s look at the best thing that can come from her returning.
We know she will be given a new identity etc…..with social media, it will be like a whitchhunt - it will cause a shitstorm.

Also from what you have read/listened to, do you think she would be given a prison sentence if she came back as as far as i’m aware she hasn’t harmed anyone?

Do you think she could possibly do some good back here and help stop teenagers/adults from being radicalised from past experience?
Click to expand...
I dont know the ramifications of travelling to Syria and "joining" ISIS...if that warrants a prison sentence then yes she should....would she get one? No idea tbh, would her time in the camps be considered some sort of punishment too?

I think theres definitely an opportunity to learn from it and use her experience to help prevent radicalisation...but she cant be rewarded for it.

Its such a hugely emotive subject that its easy to jump in with two feet....especially as there is an horrific link to that Manchester bomb attack....but i just wonder does she really deserve everything thats happened so far, based on what she has actually done?
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
Mate, i get it and fully understand what youre saying...and i dont necessarily disagree.

But she wasnt responsible for that and she should be tried and punished for whatever she actually did
Click to expand...
We’re skint apparently and tax’s will be rising again in a couple of weeks, why bring another in who will be nothing but a drain on the countries finances, leave her the fuck where she wanted to be.
 
What I don’t understand is that we cannot legally make someone stateless. However we can apparently take away her citizenship since she has access to Bangladeshi citizenship. However she doesn’t have it and I don’t think they would give her it if they can avoid it for the same reason we have taken it off her so she is stateless.

Unfortunately I think she is our responsibility and it’s probably best we do something about her.

15 is seen as an adult when it comes to joining cults and terrorists but not being abused which is interesting
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
There's no getting away from the fact that yes, she left the UK to join ISIS in Syria....she was 15 and naive.
Once in Turkey there was never a chance of them returning home, as soon as they were in the control of their handlers, whether they had regrets or changed their minds, they were never getting out.
Imprisoned in a house full of unmarried women she was quickly married....had 2 miscarriages and subsequently lost 3 children to illness/starvation.
The promise of an Islamic Utopia was a lie and life was harsh and brutal.

I think theres a perception that she/they ran off to become front line fighters, cutting off heads and burning people alive...but thats not really the case. Home situation, sense of identity, religious beliefs and the fact another friend had already travelled, and was in contact with them to say how wonderful it was over there meant they had "justification" for at least trying to get there and live in this Islamic Utopia

What a lot of people are most offended/horrified by are her subsequent comments....and until i listened to the podcast etc...i had only ever read them in the press. They were insensitive at best and utterly abhorrent at worst.....but one of the investigators made a couple of good points....

...at the time she made the comments about the Manchester bomb she was in a refugee camp where there were hundreds of militant/radical islamists and to be seen or heard speaking against ISIS etc could lead to death.
He says that he was not surprised and in fact expected her to speak in that way....she was now 19, had lived in ISIS for 4 years and thats how they talked about the "West"....she was desperate to save her newly born child having lost 2 already as well as 2 miscarriages....she was hoping that meeting journalists and highlighting her story might help her get home, but mindful that what she said would be used against her in the camps.

I am in no way condoning her joining ISIS...nor her comments....but i struggle with the removing of her citizenship and not dealing with her in the UK.
Yes, there has to be a deterrent to stop others attempting the same journey....but leaving her and others in those camps is not the answer.
Those camps are now full of kids and young adults who know nothing more of that life....yet again "we" are creating a new generation of terrorists.

Thats why i think its not a black and white story
Click to expand...
Try calculating the cost of looking after her for the next 40 years in terms of benefits and security monitoring. I can think of many better ways of spending that money eg in light of the publication of the report today into the death of Sara Sharif. Frankly I would not trust a word coming out of her mouth.
 
Metal Biker said:
Like how she was complicit in helping commit acts of terror, thought nothing of beheaded victims heads lying in trash heaps, was confirmed sighted at a terrorist training camp by the Yazidi women who were raped and tortured there? The same Yazidi women survivors who state her 'new persona' is fake? And you believe this monster?

She committed those crimes in Syria, she must face Syrian justice.
Click to expand...
Im just going on what ive read and learned.....theres no evidence of her helping to commit acts of terror...the training camp sightings have been questioned too (and i am NOT victim blaming here) but if i was a victim of such atrocity id be blaming EVERY fucker i could.

Im not saying i believe her...im just trying to support my statement that its not a black and white situation
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
There's no getting away from the fact that yes, she left the UK to join ISIS in Syria....she was 15 and naive.
Once in Turkey there was never a chance of them returning home, as soon as they were in the control of their handlers, whether they had regrets or changed their minds, they were never getting out.
Imprisoned in a house full of unmarried women she was quickly married....had 2 miscarriages and subsequently lost 3 children to illness/starvation.
The promise of an Islamic Utopia was a lie and life was harsh and brutal.

I think theres a perception that she/they ran off to become front line fighters, cutting off heads and burning people alive...but thats not really the case. Home situation, sense of identity, religious beliefs and the fact another friend had already travelled, and was in contact with them to say how wonderful it was over there meant they had "justification" for at least trying to get there and live in this Islamic Utopia

What a lot of people are most offended/horrified by are her subsequent comments....and until i listened to the podcast etc...i had only ever read them in the press. They were insensitive at best and utterly abhorrent at worst.....but one of the investigators made a couple of good points....

...at the time she made the comments about the Manchester bomb she was in a refugee camp where there were hundreds of militant/radical islamists and to be seen or heard speaking against ISIS etc could lead to death.
He says that he was not surprised and in fact expected her to speak in that way....she was now 19, had lived in ISIS for 4 years and thats how they talked about the "West"....she was desperate to save her newly born child having lost 2 already as well as 2 miscarriages....she was hoping that meeting journalists and highlighting her story might help her get home, but mindful that what she said would be used against her in the camps.

I am in no way condoning her joining ISIS...nor her comments....but i struggle with the removing of her citizenship and not dealing with her in the UK.
Yes, there has to be a deterrent to stop others attempting the same journey....but leaving her and others in those camps is not the answer.
Those camps are now full of kids and young adults who know nothing more of that life....yet again "we" are creating a new generation of terrorists.

Thats why i think its not a black and white story
Click to expand...
Same here. It don't know what to think but thanks for the info
 
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