Ship of fools

[johnny crossan]

A fact? A single solitary fact? What kind of God would provide you with the incontrovertible proof you seek? No belief problems then .... but no salvation either. Come on boys, grow up.

Why wouldn't a God let his presence be known?

God hides in order not to be found where humans want to find God. But God also hides in order to be found where God wills to be found

That is your belief based on scripture.

I'm talking about the general view of a God. Forget all the religious doctrine from the thousands of Gods throughout mankind's history. What is so inherent in the idea of a God that he/she/it would have to be what our religions tell us he is today? (invisible, no evidence could ever be found because that would make him a poor God etc etc)

There is nothing.

For example, a God could quite easily be a kind of supernatural spirit being that lived amongst us that performed moral judgment and teaching in real-time and in person to help us all grow.

Like Jesus possibly? Look Elanjo, I need to log off now but I'll come back to this point if I may.

 

[tueartsboots]

Johnny, I am not agreeing with you. My point is that RELIGION has spoilt any chance God has been able to show his existence. Organised religion is the bane humanity and should be abolished. However, if it was, underground would religions go. This good is not as life still taken it would be. (Last bit written by my Jedi side-legally classed as a religion-think on)

Sorry about that, another clarkie moment I'm afraid. Apologise for any embarassment caused.

No embarassment caused mate, nothing against your goodself but I detest organised religion. It completely wipes out any good that we are led to beleive Jesus preached.
Man is power mad, unfortunately having an audience inflates the ego and soon the power corrupts.
You have talked salvation, from our sins? The church is so sinful as to be classed as a hypocritical joke.
Catholic Church is full of sexually repressed men and or paedophiles. The Catholic church is one of the richest organisations in the world and could easily stop world poverty, most impoverished countries in Africa are mainly Catholic.
Evil, self seeking, power mad and corrupt pure and simple. Not all but ....

 

[ElanJo]

Why wouldn't a God let his presence be known?

God hides in order not to be found where humans want to find God. But God also hides in order to be found where God wills to be found

That is your belief based on scripture.

I'm talking about the general view of a God. Forget all the religious doctrine from the thousands of Gods throughout mankind's history. What is so inherent in the idea of a God that he/she/it would have to be what our religions tell us he is today? (invisible, no evidence could ever be found because that would make him a poor God etc etc)

There is nothing.

For example, a God could quite easily be a kind of supernatural spirit being that lived amongst us that performed moral judgment and teaching in real-time and in person to help us all grow.

Like Jesus possibly? Look Elanjo, I need to log off now but I'll come back to this point if I may.

Very Predictable

No, not at all like Jesus. Think of Heaven. Remove the white fluffy clouds, replace them with the earth as it is now, remove evolution, Keep God. Imagine God as a Buddha statue type figure - a giant being (not necessarily human looking - it could be pure light, it could be a black slab monolith, anything) who'd summon you , help you out, guide you, act as a mentor etc to every human being. Maybe have a God for every human being? whatever... The main thing is that he is actually there and with us forever. There'd be no need to try and prove he exists just as I don't need to prove that I exist to a person I am in a conversation with. No tricks. This God is as real as the sun in the sky. It would never cross anyone's mind to try and prove that he exists.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, to suggest that this idea of a God/s would make the God a poor God or against the idea of a God. Like I said, your view of God is based on scripture.

The God(s) throughout all of history have one thing in common. That is, their "Gods" are based on what we would expect too see if there were no Gods at all.



EDIT: Oh, and yes, you may (but only if you believe in me - and only me - and seek my forgiveness ;) )

 

[ElanJo]

I don't believe in god,if people want to that's their decision,i'm not going to argue.

I'm gonna do a Johnny and quote someone...

"It is an affront to treat falsehood with complaisance"
Thomas Paine.

 

[tonea2003]

I don't think the "here were some bad people who did great wrong" argument gets us very far at all in considering whether or not God exists, although a couple of you have had very bad experiences as the hands of people of faith, and I am very sorry for that.

I don't think "prove it" arguments get to the heart of what is at stake either, although I certainly understand the frustration when someone makes a pitch for God and sustains it by suggesting that you must be wicked or stupid if you do not buy it. If religious belief entails an evangelical component then this is not how to make the sale.

The head says "no" yet the heart hopes. However, I am not sure that reason or interest alone can ever explain the really worthwhile things we get up to in a life: raising kids; nursing ailing parents; helping strangers; basically not giving up even when by any rational/reasonable measure there is no point. And that, for me, is the glimpse of something more.

We don't have these sorts of conversations on the Gillingham MB.

i'm sorry but "prove it" is absolutely at the heart of the matter. blind faith just doesn't cut it
what i think you are saying is for people to be good, go the extra mile shall we say there has to be a god
why can't it be that some of us are just good honest human beings.

 

[Matty]

Still not had that ONE fact that proves God exists to me from Crossan, surprising that.

nor me and i think we all know why

A fact? A single solitary fact? What kind of God would provide you with the incontrovertible proof you seek? No belief problems then .... but no salvation either. Come on boys, grow up.

Ok, so the fact you CAN'T prove there's a God is actually proof of God? A typical cop out answer from yourself.

Why not just say "there is no proof, I've absolutely no way of knowing if I'm right, I just like sounding superior", it'd be more accurate.

 

[mcfc92lad]

Here is the crew of a vessel which boasts some of the most virulent & unreasoning atheists on Bluemoon. Anybody I've left out - please accept my apologies and sign yourself on board.

ElanJo (Captain)
Squirtyflower
Stony
black mamba
Blue4ever85
bun shop blue
Stanley
paphos-mcfc
i8therags
mancitygaz
nijinsky’s fetlocks

how about we just give them a big group hug and make up and eat biscwits and drink lemonade like good wittle boys and girls LOL...

 

[tueartsboots]

Here is the crew of a vessel which boasts some of the most virulent & unreasoning atheists on Bluemoon. Anybody I've left out - please accept my apologies and sign yourself on board.

ElanJo (Captain)
Squirtyflower
Stony
black mamba
Blue4ever85
bun shop blue
Stanley
paphos-mcfc
i8therags
mancitygaz
nijinsky’s fetlocks

how about we just give them a big group hug and make up and eat biscwits and drink lemonade like good wittle boys and girls LOL...

Live and let live and accept/appreciate we all have different views.

 

[BimboBob]

Here is the crew of a vessel which boasts some of the most virulent & unreasoning atheists on Bluemoon. Anybody I've left out - please accept my apologies and sign yourself on board.

ElanJo (Captain)
Squirtyflower
Stony
black mamba
Blue4ever85
bun shop blue
Stanley
paphos-mcfc
i8therags
mancitygaz
nijinsky’s fetlocks

how about we just give them a big group hug and make up and eat biscwits and drink lemonade like good wittle boys and girls LOL...

Live and let live and accept/appreciate we all have different views.

What? Jesus was a cocksucker.That's fact.

 

[scousemanc]

OK can't be bothered reading 27 pages, so what's the verdict? Is there a god or not? And more importantly, are there fairies at the bottom of my garden?