Shootings in Paris

[goalmole]

Racist!

Look, I think we're all on the same page. None of us wants to let the agenda be set by the nutters of any persuasion. We all value freedom of expression, as long as that's within the law. But on the overall scale of things worth dying for to protect that freedom I don't think a cartoon was high on that scale. Journalists in many places risk their lives and liberty to expose corruption and wrongdoing yet this lot died because of a cartoon. Doesn't seem worth the right to mock someone to me.

Free speech is not what this debate has been about, right from the original Danish cartoons up to and including this thread. This is about asserting cultural superiority and hegemony. It is about us saying this our continent, and despite the fact that most of you were born here, speak our language, in the main think like us and dress like us, we don't want you to be part of us, and if you try to tell us that you are no different to us, then we will test you by mocking and disrespecting one of the things that you hold most dear to your hearts.
In other words,we don't like you very much and you can live under our cultural subjugation or you can fuck off.
If you still then decide you want to live here then you can but with the stigma of knowing that your fellow citizens do not extend the same respect to you as they do to each other. If I was a Muslim in these circumstances, I wouldn't be rushing out to embrace mainstream society, looking for a way out of this backward religion that I happen to have been born into. I would be introverting into my community where I would be meeting with more unconditional respect than I would find elsewhere.
I don't know what these cartoonist's were thinking, but they certainly weren't thinking of how they could improve integration, cohesiveness, peaceful co-existence and progress in our societies.
They have set back community cohesion on this continent by decades.

Do you honestly believe what you've posted there? The last time I read a post that deluded was on the Thatcher thread. You're a loon.

I like being called names on here. It shows I'm on the right track.
Please enlighten us as to what their thinking was?

 

[mackenzie]

It's pretty obvious that those who perpetrated those crimes somehow felt separated from the society and the larger community in which they lived.
Until that is addressed we will get nowhere.

 

[Rascal]

Free speech is not what this debate has been about, right from the original Danish cartoons up to and including this thread. This is about asserting cultural superiority and hegemony. It is about us saying this our continent, and despite the fact that most of you were born here, speak our language, in the main think like us and dress like us, we don't want you to be part of us, and if you try to tell us that you are no different to us, then we will test you by mocking and disrespecting one of the things that you hold most dear to your hearts.
In other words,we don't like you very much and you can live under our cultural subjugation or you can fuck off.
If you still then decide you want to live here then you can but with the stigma of knowing that your fellow citizens do not extend the same respect to you as they do to each other. If I was a Muslim in these circumstances, I wouldn't be rushing out to embrace mainstream society, looking for a way out of this backward religion that I happen to have been born into. I would be introverting into my community where I would be meeting with more unconditional respect than I would find elsewhere.
I don't know what these cartoonist's were thinking, but they certainly weren't thinking of how they could improve integration, cohesiveness, peaceful co-existence and progress in our societies.
They have set back community cohesion on this continent by decades.

Excellent post sir.

 

[Shadz69]

Seems like not all Muslims look at things like Goalmole.


A SET OF guidelines on how to react to cartoons depicting Mohammad has been shared among Muslim communities this morning.

Published by a teacher in London, they have been added to by an Islamic Centre in Ireland following the release of Charlie Hebdo’s survivors’ edition.

Dublin-based Shaykh Umar Al-Qadri calls for Irish Muslims not to allow hatred creep into their hearts and react with patience, tolerance, gentleness and mercy.

He, however, has also encouraged Muslims to discuss their feelings and their anger with people they know, especially those not of the same faith.

Here are the guidelines, in full, as set out by Shaykh Umar Al-Qadri, the President and Imam of the Al-Mustafa Islamic Educational & Cultural Centre Ireland.

The following points are general guidelines for Muslims in Ireland on how to initially deal with and immediately react to the depiction of Prophet Muhammad in print media due to be published or published already.

1. For every Muslim, Love of the Prophet is a NECESSARY part of his/her FAITH. He is dearer to us than our mothers, fathers, sons & daughters. We prefer him to our own self.

2. The publishing of cartoons that insult or make fun of the Prophet Muhammad will hurt the sentiments of 1.8 billion Muslims around the world, as well as millions of non-Muslims who respect the great personality of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

3. Muslims do believe in freedom of speech. And they do respect the right for people to say what they believe to be correct. However, we all know that there is no such thing as absolute free speech.

There are laws to protect the dignity and properties of people. We urge all decent minded Governments and individuals to respect these sensitivities, as we should respect all races and religions.

In the struggle for freedom of speech it was never the intention to extend freedom of speech to making fun of insulting customs, traditions, personalities that are sacred to a particular community.

4. As it is clear that the cartoons are to be published again, Muslims will inevitably be hurt, offended and upset, but our reaction must be a reflection of the teachings of the one we love and are offended for. Enduring patience, tolerance, gentleness and mercy as was the character of our beloved Prophet (peace and Blessings be upon him) is the best and immediate way to respond.

Our aim is to not, inadvertently, give the cartoons more prominence through our attention. Muslims must remain calm and peaceful in their speech and actions. Repel harm with goodness is the Qur’anic imperative and by which the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) lived.

5. Muslims have to remember that by depicting the Prophet, no one can ever tarnish his image, as he is way beyond what is depicted, as Allah says, ‘We have elevated your remembrance’. We should spend such regrettable moments in reading lots of Durood, sending salawaat and blessings to his beloved personality. May Allah’s mercy, peace and blessing be upon his soul.


6. Engage with others about your feelings. Speak of your love for the Prophet and do not be shy to let your non-Muslims friends know your justified anger at the mockery that is made of our faith. People need to know HOW MUCH WE LOVE OUR NABI.

7. Learn more and share more about the great Prophet Muhammed that was said about him by non-Muslims.

8. We should, through our actions and deeds, display the sublime character of the Prophet (peace be upon him). The Prophet faced many great challenges but he exhibited impeccable beauty and character in his actions.

He did not react inhumanely or violently. He was attacked verbally and physically in Taif but he forgave the people. His uncle and companions were murdered but he reacted peacefully and in a humane manner. And there are many such examples from the Life of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) we must display.

9. As Irish citizens we must not allow tragic incidents of Paris for hate to creep into our hearts. Muslims, non-Muslims and people of all backgrounds must come together and show unity and solidarity and not let it divide our communities.

We must remember the statements of the Prophet (peace be upon him) such as:

“Someone who unjustly kills a human cannot attain a whiff of Heaven. (Sahih Bukhari), or, “He who hurts a human hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah.” (Tabarani) And many other similar Hadiths highlighting that Muslims are not allowed to hurt their non-Muslim brothers and sisters in humanity.

10. We must continuously supplicate to Allah that He rectifies our situation. Pray to Him that the chaos, injustice and oppression is lifted from our society. We should pray to Allah so that He makes the World a better, fairer and just place for all. Pray to Him to aid the oppressed and the victims of the oppressors in France and all over the world. Pray that He allows us to contribute to a more peaceful and just world. Sincerely pray at night and beseech Him to protect our honour and our dignity.

May Allah give us the ability to do what is right and avoid what is wrong. May Allah protect the whole of humanity from trials and tribulations. Ameen

 

[aguero93:20]

I don't know what these cartoonist's were thinking, but they certainly weren't thinking of how they could improve integration, cohesiveness, peaceful co-existence and progress in our societies.
They have set back community cohesion on this continent by decades.

Depends which way you look at it. Atheism is on the increase, France is secular. Perhaps they believed in the trend. A lot of people have already said a world without religion would be a better world. I agree with that. The fact that Islam and it's followers seem to be no near ready for it may be a backing of your point.

The world is anything but peaceful, and it has never really been has it? We are veering towards a world without religion it would seem, it's a long way off mind, but that's the direction I think it's going. Maybe there will be true peace in the future, and this type of thing is a necessity to that.

[bigimg]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m424axMkFD1qdtkkao1_500.png[/bigimg]

 

[dronefromsector7g]

Free speech is not what this debate has been about, right from the original Danish cartoons up to and including this thread. This is about asserting cultural superiority and hegemony. It is about us saying this our continent, and despite the fact that most of you were born here, speak our language, in the main think like us and dress like us, we don't want you to be part of us, and if you try to tell us that you are no different to us, then we will test you by mocking and disrespecting one of the things that you hold most dear to your hearts.
In other words,we don't like you very much and you can live under our cultural subjugation or you can fuck off.
If you still then decide you want to live here then you can but with the stigma of knowing that your fellow citizens do not extend the same respect to you as they do to each other. If I was a Muslim in these circumstances, I wouldn't be rushing out to embrace mainstream society, looking for a way out of this backward religion that I happen to have been born into. I would be introverting into my community where I would be meeting with more unconditional respect than I would find elsewhere.
I don't know what these cartoonist's were thinking, but they certainly weren't thinking of how they could improve integration, cohesiveness, peaceful co-existence and progress in our societies.
They have set back community cohesion on this continent by decades.

Do you honestly believe what you've posted there? The last time I read a post that deluded was on the Thatcher thread. You're a loon.

I like being called names on here. It shows I'm on the right track.
Please enlighten us as to what their thinking was?

You really believe this is about saying 'fuck you' to Muslims? Don't they also take the piss out of other religious figures? I'm still waiting for Jewish/Christian posters to come on here ranting about such offensive cartoons. I actually get the feeling you'd like your accusations to be true for some weird reason.

 

[Chancy Termites]

Do you honestly believe what you've posted there? The last time I read a post that deluded was on the Thatcher thread. You're a loon.

I like being called names on here. It shows I'm on the right track.
Please enlighten us as to what their thinking was?

You really believe this is about saying 'fuck you' to Muslims? Don't they also take the piss out of other religious figures? I'm still waiting for Jewish/Christian posters to come on here ranting about such offensive cartoons. I actually get the feeling you'd like your accusations to be true for some weird reason.

Yes, Christianity much more than any other religion.

 

[malg]

Free speech is not what this debate has been about, right from the original Danish cartoons up to and including this thread. This is about asserting cultural superiority and hegemony. It is about us saying this our continent, and despite the fact that most of you were born here, speak our language, in the main think like us and dress like us, we don't want you to be part of us, and if you try to tell us that you are no different to us, then we will test you by mocking and disrespecting one of the things that you hold most dear to your hearts.
In other words,we don't like you very much and you can live under our cultural subjugation or you can fuck off.
If you still then decide you want to live here then you can but with the stigma of knowing that your fellow citizens do not extend the same respect to you as they do to each other. If I was a Muslim in these circumstances, I wouldn't be rushing out to embrace mainstream society, looking for a way out of this backward religion that I happen to have been born into. I would be introverting into my community where I would be meeting with more unconditional respect than I would find elsewhere.
I don't know what these cartoonist's were thinking, but they certainly weren't thinking of how they could improve integration, cohesiveness, peaceful co-existence and progress in our societies.
They have set back community cohesion on this continent by decades.

Do you honestly believe what you've posted there? The last time I read a post that deluded was on the Thatcher thread. You're a loon.

I like being called names on here. It shows I'm on the right track.
Please enlighten us as to what their thinking was?

You're not on any right track, you're a loon. This whole thread is full of people who won't change their minds regardless of who posts what. I have read a lot of your posts, and I can't reconcile with any of your thinking. To me, you are the problem, and anyone else who agrees with what you've posted above is the same. I've stayed away as long as I can, as I won't change my mind, and you won't change yours, so the whole exercise is pointless.

 

[blueinsa]

Ok, no more cartoons, no more mocking, let them have what they want.

Do you think that would be the end of the trouble?

Not a chance and those putting all the blame on the west here know it full well.

Cartoons were an excuse last week, these loons will find something else for next time.

 

[mackenzie]

Do you honestly believe what you've posted there? The last time I read a post that deluded was on the Thatcher thread. You're a loon.

I like being called names on here. It shows I'm on the right track.
Please enlighten us as to what their thinking was?

You really believe this is about saying 'fuck you' to Muslims? Don't they also take the piss out of other religious figures? I'm still waiting for Jewish/Christian posters to come on here ranting about such offensive cartoons. I actually get the feeling you'd like your accusations to be true for some weird reason.

I think we need to look at demographics. Jews and Christians have been pretty much settled in their respective areas across Europe for generations. That leads to a sense of security and acceptance.
If your environment is somewhat 'new' then you will feel less secure.