SKYSCRAPER CALLED OFF - POLICE

[LoveCity]

City demanding UEFA reimburse the fans who went yesterday shows not everyone at the club these days is a heartless corporate drone, there are still some in there with a conscience.

But yes, the club feels further away from the fans than it ever has of late. The expensive ticket prices (matchday + increase in ST costs which is an annual occurrence now) seem to have backfired and now these offers like kids-for-a-quid and BOGOF have almost been forced on the club because of bad turnouts (higher PL prices = people less likely to turn out for other competitions).

City strike me as the most image conscious club in the league. They want to build a brand that is loved by the world, just looked at their progressive social media work and all the PR coming from the new academy and ideas of creating the world's best young footballers. Oh, and of course the "cheapest season tickets in the league!", one of the biggest illusions of them all because a tiny minority get them while the rest of us pay more and more each year. But hey, it looks good on the "Price of Football" studies...

They have disillusioned many of the fans that should mean most, those who go to matches regularly and fill the stadium. It's not just increasing ticket prices but the worsening feeling of sterility at the ground (banners replaced by laughable digital versions, adverts, and tweets from people not even at the game).

Even after we swapped stadiums, it still seemed like an authentic community event and even in the years after the takeover I felt the same, like the club was making a concerted effort to retain that same feeling that separated us from our rivals, particularly the tourist attraction across town.

Now it feels like we're doing them a favour by going. There is an oppressive "sit down and shut up" feel and the aggressive stewards writing down seat numbers do not help matters. Calls for a serious atmosphere area, separate from the declining 'Kippax' corner and South Stand are still unanswered by City. I was told to sit down by a middle aged City fan when I stood up during a dangerous City attack the other week. I am not one of those who will pretend the atmosphere has ever been amazing at the City of Manchester Etihad Stadium, but I am sure, from personal experience, that as recently as 2 years ago it was better than it is now.

Love the football on show, but the day as an 'occasion' is just not what I wish it would be, as lately the atmosphere is worse than it would be at a pub without the multiple Sky TV angles. And in a way I think the club have conditioned the fans to be like this through the 101 rules, policing and restrictions (saw a teenager have a flag confiscated a few months ago). At least the derby should be good, the one time of year we have it at the Etihad, when suddenly people make that little bit of effort to really support their team and the stewards realise that it's impossible to police 40,000+ fans so just let us be.

 

[cleavers]

City demanding UEFA reimburse the fans who went yesterday shows not everyone at the club these days is a heartless corporate drone, there are still some in there with a conscience.

But yes, the club feels further away from the fans than it ever has of late. The expensive ticket prices (matchday + increase in ST costs which is an annual occurrence now) seem to have backfired and now these offers like kids-for-a-quid and BOGOF have almost been forced on the club because of bad turnouts (higher PL prices = people less likely to turn out for other competitions).

City strike me as the most image conscious club in the league. They want to build a brand that is loved by the world, just looked at their progressive social media work and all the PR coming from the new academy and ideas of creating the world's best young footballers. Oh, and of course the "cheapest season tickets in the league!", one of the biggest illusions of them all because a tiny minority get them while the rest of us pay more and more each year. But hey, it looks good on the "Price of Football" studies...

They have disillusioned many of the fans that should mean most, those who go to matches regularly and fill the stadium. It's not just increasing ticket prices but the worsening feeling of sterility at the ground (banners replaced by laughable digital versions, adverts, and tweets from people not even at the game).

Even after we swapped stadiums, it still seemed like an authentic community event and even in the years after the takeover I felt the same, like the club was making a concerted effort to retain that same feeling that separated us from our rivals, particularly the tourist attraction across town.

Now it feels like we're doing them a favour by going. There is an oppressive "sit down and shut up" feel and the aggressive stewards writing down seat numbers do not help matters. Calls for a serious atmosphere area, separate from the declining 'Kippax' corner and South Stand are still unanswered by City. I was told to sit down by a middle aged City fan when I stood up during a dangerous City attack the other week. I am not one of those who will pretend the atmosphere has ever been amazing at the City of Manchester Etihad Stadium, but I am sure, from personal experience, that as recently as 2 years ago it was better than it is now.

Love the football on show, but the day as an 'occasion' is just not what I wish it would be, as lately the atmosphere is worse than it would be at a pub without the multiple Sky TV angles. And in a way I think the club have conditioned the fans to be like this through the 101 rules, policing and restrictions (saw a teenager have a flag confiscated a few months ago). At least the derby should be good, the one time of year we have it at the Etihad, when suddenly people make that little bit of effort to really support their team and the stewards realise that it's impossible to police 40,000+ fans so just let us be.

Great post LC, I think you've pretty well nailed it there.

Its great we're winning stuff, mixing with the best in europe, making our neighbours rage with envy, building the best facilities in the country, if not the world, and I think we are all very proud of that, I know I am, but lets not pretend that everything is perfect, and some of our clubs middle management appear (to me at least) to be missing the bigger picture, that the core support of this club needs to be more carefully looked after than it currently is.

 

[Bluep*ss]

City demanding UEFA reimburse the fans who went yesterday shows not everyone at the club these days is a heartless corporate drone, there are still some in there with a conscience.

But yes, the club feels further away from the fans than it ever has of late. The expensive ticket prices (matchday + increase in ST costs which is an annual occurrence now) seem to have backfired and now these offers like kids-for-a-quid and BOGOF have almost been forced on the club because of bad turnouts (higher PL prices = people less likely to turn out for other competitions).

City strike me as the most image conscious club in the league. They want to build a brand that is loved by the world, just looked at their progressive social media work and all the PR coming from the new academy and ideas of creating the world's best young footballers. Oh, and of course the "cheapest season tickets in the league!", one of the biggest illusions of them all because a tiny minority get them while the rest of us pay more and more each year. But hey, it looks good on the "Price of Football" studies...

They have disillusioned many of the fans that should mean most, those who go to matches regularly and fill the stadium. It's not just increasing ticket prices but the worsening feeling of sterility at the ground (banners replaced by laughable digital versions, adverts, and tweets from people not even at the game).

Even after we swapped stadiums, it still seemed like an authentic community event and even in the years after the takeover I felt the same, like the club was making a concerted effort to retain that same feeling that separated us from our rivals, particularly the tourist attraction across town.

Now it feels like we're doing them a favour by going. There is an oppressive "sit down and shut up" feel and the aggressive stewards writing down seat numbers do not help matters. Calls for a serious atmosphere area, separate from the declining 'Kippax' corner and South Stand are still unanswered by City. I was told to sit down by a middle aged City fan when I stood up during a dangerous City attack the other week. I am not one of those who will pretend the atmosphere has ever been amazing at the City of Manchester Etihad Stadium, but I am sure, from personal experience, that as recently as 2 years ago it was better than it is now.

Love the football on show, but the day as an 'occasion' is just not what I wish it would be, as lately the atmosphere is worse than it would be at a pub without the multiple Sky TV angles. And in a way I think the club have conditioned the fans to be like this through the 101 rules, policing and restrictions (saw a teenager have a flag confiscated a few months ago). At least the derby should be good, the one time of year we have it at the Etihad, when suddenly people make that little bit of effort to really support their team and the stewards realise that it's impossible to police 40,000+ fans so just let us be.

Great post LC, I think you've pretty well nailed it there.

Its great we're winning stuff, mixing with the best in europe, making our neighbours rage with envy, building the best facilities in the country, if not the world, and I think we are all very proud of that, I know I am, but lets not pretend that everything is perfect, and some of our clubs middle management appear (to me at least) to be missing the bigger picture, that the core support of this club needs to be more carefully looked after than it currently is.

I totally agree with both of you.

 

[BillyShears]

TBF the discussion is predicated on a rumour and someone else has said it was the GMP who travelled with the club who shopped the supporters.

I take your point about how the effect of ticket prices alone is minimal on the overall balance sheet, however we're a business that has been haemorrhaging money for a few years now and the owners have no obligation to continue to do that. They do need to cut those losses because of FFP and this means by any means necessary. Within the context of that and the product on offer, it's saddening to see so many question whether the club is losing it's soul.

We have without question and without doubt the best owners in the Premier League by a country mile. They may not be perfect and they will make mistakes, however they are a capable and intelligent group of people who have done more than just pay lip service to understanding what the "soul" of City is.

I just feel like there are so many who seem so fucking miserable with City these days whereas I look at the football (which is what after all it's all about) and am just thankful.

I agree on the football, nobody really can argue otherwise, even given the odd blip like last nights second half, and its not that that is making folk wonder about some of the things going on, because we can't afford to lose our core support. I think PB's choice of word was wrong, but I can see some of his point.

I said when we were taken over that we would go this way, most people told me I was talking bollocks at the time, there were even suggestions that our new owner would let us in for free at one point, totally laughable.

Football at the top level (in England particularly) is pricey, and if we were to become part of the elite, then we would have to head towards the same model, but I stand by my opinion that we can still have both the best football, the best product for the price we have to pay, and keep our core passionate support, by not heading down the completely soulless (and it is) rag route, and demanding silly money from people who can't afford it.

I'm hoping (but with more optimism than I had a couple of years ago) that the stadium expansion will bring this about possibility, because we can significantly increase corporate revenue, and at the same time keep prices for the ordinary fan, relatively cheap, and that this squeeze was in fact caused by our lack of capacity to increase corportate, and by increasing capacity significantly, we can now have both.

The club needs both, without one, the other can't proceed for me, and hopefully those middle managers see this.

At the moment I'm "alright Jack", but many aren't, and the club need to consider those that aren't, or we will end up with a fan base of middle and upper income people, who turn up for the event, and not the club, we don't need to go down that route, as those numbers show.

The owner will get his investment back (assuming he wants it), by having a club at the very top of world football for a long time, with all the sponsorship revenue that will bring in, so there is no need to risk alienating the very people who kept this club going.

Oh and I'm definitely not in the miserable club ;o)

I think there's two very distinct and separate discussions to be had. IMO there's a very valid one about the overall pricing structure at City. I'm not saying that I agree with those who say that our tickets are too expensive because I don't see them in isolation, but within the context of what everyone else in the league pays. However I take your point that maybe the club have the capacity to do the right thing and manage to keep all financial demographics within the supporter base happy.

The other discussion, the one which bothers me immensely, is this whole "match day experience" bullshit. The advertising hoardings, the pre/post match entertainment, etc. I feel like the club can't win. They are NEVER going to please everyone, in particular City supporters because lets face it, we're a special kind of miserable at the best of times. Don't you think that with everything that the owners have done for the actual football, they're entitled to create whatever kind of match day experience they want, up to and including one which is more geared towards families, kids, etc rather than the average pissed up punter?

There will be a point at which the complaints begin to sound like entitlement and we have to be careful that we don't end up there.

 

[Bluebee2]

This is why, although I support the team, I'm beginning to hate the club. Bunch of soulless, corporate suits who have no concept of what it's like to be a fan or how to engage with us.

Oh dear. Another one of your controversial for the sake of it posts. Or should that be "deliberately provocative". Playing to the cheap seats. You "hate" the club. Wow. That's proper bottom of the barrel stuff.

That's the way I genuinely feel. Perhaps "hate" is a bit strong but I simply don't like what the club is becoming. And the increasing number of empty seats say the same thing.

Yes I agree we've got very professional & seemingly competent executives running the place now and that's something I actively campaigned for when we had that douche-bag Mackintosh running the show.
Yes I accept that we're moving onwards and upwards and there's a price to be paid for that.

But I contrast them sitting looking at their 'revenue optimisation models', where they're prepared to accept a couple of thousand empty seats in order to maximise income, and compare that to Garry Cook, whose atttitude was "we have to fill the ground to help the team" and I can't help feeling we've lost something along the way. I'd like to think Garry Cook would not only have recognised the City fans in the stadium but, instead of shopping them, would have found a way to keep them there.

I'm not a religious man but the quote from Matthew 16:26 sums up my feeling: "And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?"

Spot on PB, Cook would of done something about it no matter what, Cook isn't a City fan we know that but really cared for the club and fans, the majority of MCFC officials don't support City and have no interest in our club apart from their pay packet.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Oh dear. Another one of your controversial for the sake of it posts. Or should that be "deliberately provocative". Playing to the cheap seats. You "hate" the club. Wow. That's proper bottom of the barrel stuff.

That's the way I genuinely feel. Perhaps "hate" is a bit strong but I simply don't like what the club is becoming. And the increasing number of empty seats say the same thing.

Yes I agree we've got very professional & seemingly competent executives running the place now and that's something I actively campaigned for when we had that douche-bag Mackintosh running the show.
Yes I accept that we're moving onwards and upwards and there's a price to be paid for that.

But I contrast them sitting looking at their 'revenue optimisation models', where they're prepared to accept a couple of thousand empty seats in order to maximise income, and compare that to Garry Cook, whose atttitude was "we have to fill the ground to help the team" and I can't help feeling we've lost something along the way. I'd like to think Garry Cook would not only have recognised the City fans in the stadium but, instead of shopping them, would have found a way to keep them there.

I'm not a religious man but the quote from Matthew 16:26 sums up my feeling: "And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?"

Spot on PB, Cook would of done something about it no matter what, Cook isn't a City fan we know that but really cared for the club and fans, the majorityof MCFC officials don't support City and have no interest in our club apart from their pay packet.

But where is your evidence for that? Having spoken to a number of officials at City over the past couple of years my impression is that they all support City and are proud to do so.

Sorry Mods if this has gone off topic from the Skyscraper being called off.

 

[BillyShears]

But where is your evidence for that? Having spoken to a number of officials at City over the past couple of years my impression is that they all support City and are proud to do so.

Also - since PB's "hate" was manifested by club officials throwing Blues out of the stadium in Moscow - has it been confirmed that it was club officials and not GMP who travelled with the club?

Seems in the rush to condemn everyone at the club as a soulless corporate wage slave nobody has managed to confirm this very important fact.

 

[Bluebee2]

That's the way I genuinely feel. Perhaps "hate" is a bit strong but I simply don't like what the club is becoming. And the increasing number of empty seats say the same thing.

Yes I agree we've got very professional & seemingly competent executives running the place now and that's something I actively campaigned for when we had that douche-bag Mackintosh running the show.
Yes I accept that we're moving onwards and upwards and there's a price to be paid for that.

But I contrast them sitting looking at their 'revenue optimisation models', where they're prepared to accept a couple of thousand empty seats in order to maximise income, and compare that to Garry Cook, whose atttitude was "we have to fill the ground to help the team" and I can't help feeling we've lost something along the way. I'd like to think Garry Cook would not only have recognised the City fans in the stadium but, instead of shopping them, would have found a way to keep them there.

I'm not a religious man but the quote from Matthew 16:26 sums up my feeling: "And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?"

Spot on PB, Cook would of done something about it no matter what, Cook isn't a City fan we know that but really cared for the club and fans, the majorityof MCFC officials don't support City and have no interest in our club apart from their pay packet.

But where is your evidence for that? Having spoken to a number of officials at City over the past couple of years my impression is that they all support City and are proud to do so.

Sorry Mods if this has gone off topic from the Skyscraper being called off.

You are seriously deluded if you think everyone that works for City are City fans, there are many in top jobs who support other teams United, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton to name a few, as long as they do their job does it matter, the point is they may not go that extra mile to help City fans in a situation in Moscow was the point I believe.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

But where is your evidence for that? Having spoken to a number of officials at City over the past couple of years my impression is that they all support City and are proud to do so.

My evidence? No Points of Blue in the last 2 years is exhibit A. PoB may have been a talking shop at times but at least there were committed City fans like you, me, Bill, Dave and others telling htem about the issues that most impacted us, plus we sometimes got a meaningful & honest response. Now it's just faceless surveys & the appalling City Voice.

Ticket pricing is Exhibit B. They've completely ignored the demographic of the fanbase, who are clearly being priced out. Like I said, I'm sure they're prepared to accept a couple of thousand empty seats in order to maximise revenue. And charging over £50 for a televised Monday night game against WBA, as they did last season, is not the action of a management that cares about the fans.

The story about club officials colluding to have Blues ejected on Tuesday may be apocryphal but I have clearly stated I felt the same way before that so it hasn't shaped my thinking but I confess I used a story that hasn't been verified to confirm my opinion so I'm in the wrong for doing that.

The replacement of the banners on the second tier again shows that "partners" hold more sway than fans these days, something we accuse UEFA of. People will say they bring money into the club but I bet it's only a couple of million at best.

Stuart Pearce told me publicly back in 2006, using Radio Manchester as his medium, that we should lay off criticisng John Wardle (which I most certainly hadn't been) unless we were prepared to put the £20m in that he'd put in. My response was that we, the fans, put in £20m a year, every year. That's even more now, so I think we're entitled to have our say.

 

[Bill]

That's the way I genuinely feel. Perhaps "hate" is a bit strong but I simply don't like what the club is becoming. And the increasing number of empty seats say the same thing.

Yes I agree we've got very professional & seemingly competent executives running the place now and that's something I actively campaigned for when we had that douche-bag Mackintosh running the show.
Yes I accept that we're moving onwards and upwards and there's a price to be paid for that.

But I contrast them sitting looking at their 'revenue optimisation models', where they're prepared to accept a couple of thousand empty seats in order to maximise income, and compare that to Garry Cook, whose atttitude was "we have to fill the ground to help the team" and I can't help feeling we've lost something along the way. I'd like to think Garry Cook would not only have recognised the City fans in the stadium but, instead of shopping them, would have found a way to keep them there.

I'm not a religious man but the quote from Matthew 16:26 sums up my feeling: "And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?"

Spot on PB, Cook would of done something about it no matter what, Cook isn't a City fan we know that but really cared for the club and fans, the majorityof MCFC officials don't support City and have no interest in our club apart from their pay packet.

But where is your evidence for that? Having spoken to a number of officials at City over the past couple of years my impression is that they all support City and are proud to do so.

Sorry Mods if this has gone off topic from the Skyscraper being called off.

off?

I sat here on the 17th floor with me flask and blanket.