so this agenda thing.

[George Hannah]

Things like the Aguerooo moment and 100+ league goals make shit box office.

that moment was simultaneously broadcast with a concluded game in the north east and the dippers were the free-scoring centurions of last season

Yes, yes, George. Of course.

Happy to help, I always make a point of correcting unbelievers otherwise they never learn.

 

[Ric]

I posted this in another thread but it resonates here, too.

Since the beginning of the 2013/14 season, Clattenberg is the only referee to award a penalty against United, and he has awarded 6 in 4 games. In the 41 other league games refereed by everyone else, not a single penalty has been awarded.

Out of interest, do you have any theory as to why Clattenberg awards so many penalties and other referees none at all? It cannot relate to Taggart because he has been gone since the end of the 12/13 season.

I'm not sure where you get your stats from but Clattenburg has awarded 18 penalties in the last 3 seasons, which puts him pretty much slap bang in the middle of the 17 referees appointed to the Premier League. As regards the United thing and the 37 games (it's been a few years since we played 42 games a season!) without a penalty being given against them, the same is pretty much true of City, as in 37 of our 38 games no-one gave the opposition a penalty either. We did get awarded 7 of our own, which might confuse the refereeing agenda fraternity on here somewhat! Not being sarcastic Chris, but what point are you trying to make?

I'm not trying to make a point at all, but it is anomalous and the anomaly warrants discussion.

The stats are my own research, my source is the BBC website. There were 38 matches last season and there have been five so far this season so there have been 43 league games since the beginning of the 13/14 season (I had a senior moment and made it 45). That means there have been 39 games since the beginning of the 13/14 season that Clattenberg did not referee. (again, I managed to make it 41).

The discrepancy between the penalties award by Clattenberg against United and the penalties awarded by every other referee against United is vast and anomalous. The bare statistics indicate that in 3510 minutes of football played in games not refereed by Clattenberg not a single foul was committed by United in their own area, whereas in 360 minutes of football refereed by Clattenberg, six fouls were.

Your statistics about Clattenberg's General trend in terms of awarding penalties makes the anomaly even more stark. In 3 seasons he has awarded 18 penalties, 6 of them against United in the last four games. 12 penalties in three years against everyone else and six in four games against United? Wow. Did Giggs fuck his wife too?

So far as all the other referees are concerned, if Taggart was still in charge at the swamp I could understand the reluctance to award penalties against the rags for the reasons that have been discussed at length in this thread and others already. The same pattern however has been replicated since he retired, save for Clattenberg's games, so the Ferguson fear factor cannot be the explanation. Perhaps they genuinely didn't commit any fouls in the area in those 39 games that Clattenberg did not referee. There are however a number of examples of referees other than Clattenberg give United the benefit of the doubt (Mason for instance) and Clattenberg alone giving it the other way - the soft penalty on Sunday being an example. Both of those things seem to me to call for further consideration.

The comparison with us and penalties against seems to me to be a tenuous one. We accumulated 22 points more than United last season, and our win ratios and possession statistics were vastly superior. A better comparison for penalties conceded would be Spurs or Southampton whose season records were not vastly dissimilar. I would have thought a better point of comparison for us would have been Liverpool or Chelsea.

It is perhaps the discrepancy between Clattenberg's track record relating to the rags and every other referee's record that makes the statistics so remarkable. In terms of "the agenda", whatever that is, the anomaly suggests strongly that something more than mere chance is involved - unless of course in those 39 games there really were no fouls in the area, and in Clattenberg's four game there really were six. Whatever the agenda is, the anomaly would suggest that there is in fact more than one agenda at work and they do not necessarily have the same objective.

But anyway, I asked if you had any theory as to why 6 penalties were awarded against United in 360 minutes of football by Clattenberg, and none in 3,510 minutes by everybody else, and the answer seems to be that you don't. I wasn't picking a fight, I simply wondered if you could readily explain it.

Maybe Clattenburg was stung by the suggestions that he was biased in favour of United after the game at Stamford Bridge in 2012 when he gave two red cards to Chelsea in United's 3-2 win. The subsequent "CLATTENBURG, REFEREE, LEADER, LEGEND" banner will have presumably embarrassed him, so perhaps he's over compensating as a result to try and prove he doesn't favour United. You could also factor in that three of the six penalties he's awarded came in a particularly one-sided game against Liverpool last season, which possibly skews the figures.

Doesn't explain why no other referee has awarded a penalty against them since the start of last season though.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Agenda of the Manchester Football Correspondent...
A lot of our problems are down the fact that the journalist nominally assigned to cover City ihome games is often the journalist who covers all thing raggy.

Consider the Telegraph where the so called "Northern" football correspondent, one Mark Ogden He is a rag. Ran a united fanzine and worked for MUTV before getting the job at the Telegraph. Whenever he gets a City game to report on it is written through red tinted glasses. Consider Yesterdays match report:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/league-cup/11119054/Tottenham-Hotspur-3-Nottingham-Forest-1-Capital-One-Cup-match-report-Championship-leaders-denied.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... enied.html</a>

Manchester City 7 Sheffield Wednesday 0, Capital One Cup: Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round
Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round following seven-goal rout at the Etihad Stadium
By Mark Ogden, Northern Football Correspondent, Etihad Stadium
Frank Lampard was supposed to offer no more than experienced cover at Manchester City, but his loan move to the Etihad Stadium is developing into the fairytale of the New Yorker.
A crucial equalising goal against Chelsea at the weekend and now two in a seven-goal Capital One Cup rout of Sheffield Wednesday, which was capped by a young supporter running on to the pitch to pose for a selfie with the former England midfielder.
Not bad for starters for the 36-year-old, whose loan from New York City FC is due to expire at the beginning of February. But Manuel Pellegrini, the City manager, admitted after this third-round tie that Lampard may yet stick around at the Etihad Stadium for the remainder of the season if he continues to impress.
Such a move may not be too well received in Manhattan and in the Fifth Avenue offices of Major League Soccer but, with both clubs owned by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan, Lampard’s situation is clearly a complex one and it may have to wait longer than expected to become an Englishman in New York. “We will do what is best for the team and the player,” Pellegrini said.
“We must talk about a lot of things, but it is not impossible for him to stay here. It is an issue that we will see further down the line. We will see what happens in January and we have two or three months to decide. He is a very important player for our team and maybe, at 36, he cannot play three games in a row. But Frank is a top player.”
Wherever Lampard plies his trade in the new year, he is proving that he will contribute more than a famous name and pedigree to the team for which he plays. Prior to Lampard’s opener in this game, Wednesday had frustrated the Premier League champions in an evenly fought first half. But with the veteran one of City’s few impressive performers in the opening period, it was apt that he scored the first goal to set the home side on their way to victory.
With the Capital One Cup final on March 1 and Lampard due back in the United States for the start of the MLS season two weeks later, there may yet be a temptation on the player’s part to pursue a third winner’s medal in the competition should City progress to the latter stages.
Whether New York City would be prepared to accommodate Lampard’s desire to remain in Manchester is another matter but, if the midfielder sustains this form, Pellegrini would be foolish to allow him to leave.
The City manager had gone into the game emphasising the need to rotate his squad, with the club entering a taxing period of seven games in 21 days, but the Chilean selected a surprisingly strong starting XI to face Championship opponents.
Willy Caballero, City’s Argentine goalkeeper, was the only player on the home side not to have represented his country, with Pellegrini packing his team with the seasoned experience of Yaya Touré, Lampard and many of last season’s title-winning squad. Youngsters such as Dedryck Boyata, Jose Angel Pozo and Sinan Bytyqi were overlooked and named on the bench, but despite the formidable strength of City’s XI, Wednesday were neither overawed nor overpowered in the first half.
In sixth place in the Championship, pursuing a return to the top flight for the first time since relegation in 2000, Wednesday displayed energy and tenacity as they met the challenge of facing the champions head on in the early stages. But for poor finishing by centre-forward Gary Madine, Stuart Gray’s team should have taken the lead as early as the seventh minute.
Madine, the archetypal lower-league journeyman, possessed the brawn to trouble Martin Demichelis and Eliaquim Mangala, but he lacked the finishing touch and only he will know how he failed to trouble Caballero with a free header from Jacques Maghoma’s pinpoint cross – a chance wasted. But Wednesday continued to test City, with Maghoma, Stevie May and Liam Palmer enjoying more of the ball than their direct opponents.
Only Lampard and James Milner displayed anything like the commitment and desire required for City, who only created sporadic chances in the opening period. Milner had a close-range shot saved by Chris Kirkland, while Mangala rattled the post with a left-foot volley from Aleksandar Kolarov’s corner. Other than a tame Dzeko header, easily saved by Kirkland, City failed to go close to opening the scoring before the interval.
It all changed after half-time, however, with Lampard scoring on 47 minutes after being teed up by Jesús Navas’s near-post cross. From that point on, Wednesday found themselves washed away by a blue tide, with Dzeko making it 2-0 six minutes later, again from a Navas assist.
The Spain winger then scored a third with a strike that beat Kirkland after initially hitting the bar, before Touré scored with a penalty after Kamil Zayatte was dismissed by referee Paul Tierney for a foul on Lampard. Dzeko made it 5-0 on 77 minutes before the teenager Pozo scored a debut goal in the 90th minute. Lampard then made it 7-0 three minutes into stoppage time.
“We had a mad nine-minute period when they scored three and showed the gulf in class between the Premier League and Championship,” Gray said. “We were punished for things we would not be punished for in the Championship. We were playing against world-class players, but we are back to our bread-and-butter at the weekend against Cardiff.”

Can you imagine a Utd 7-0 win being written up in same way?

 

[George Hannah]

Agenda of the Manchester Football Correspondent...
A lot of our problems are down the fact that the journalist nominally assigned to cover City ihome games is often the journalist who covers all thing raggy.

Consider the Telegraph where the so called "Northern" football correspondent, one Mark Ogden He is a rag. Ran a united fanzine and worked for MUTV before getting the job at the Telegraph. Whenever he gets a City game to report on it is written through red tinted glasses. Consider Yesterdays match report:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/league-cup/11119054/Tottenham-Hotspur-3-Nottingham-Forest-1-Capital-One-Cup-match-report-Championship-leaders-denied.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... enied.html</a>

Manchester City 7 Sheffield Wednesday 0, Capital One Cup: Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round
Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round following seven-goal rout at the Etihad Stadium
By Mark Ogden, Northern Football Correspondent, Etihad Stadium....

Can you imagine a Utd 7-0 win being written up in same way?

it's a sick joke letting vermillion vermin like him write up our games

 

[Ric]

Agenda of the Manchester Football Correspondent...
A lot of our problems are down the fact that the journalist nominally assigned to cover City ihome games is often the journalist who covers all thing raggy.

Consider the Telegraph where the so called "Northern" football correspondent, one Mark Ogden He is a rag. Ran a united fanzine and worked for MUTV before getting the job at the Telegraph. Whenever he gets a City game to report on it is written through red tinted glasses. Consider Yesterdays match report:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/league-cup/11119054/Tottenham-Hotspur-3-Nottingham-Forest-1-Capital-One-Cup-match-report-Championship-leaders-denied.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... enied.html</a>

Manchester City 7 Sheffield Wednesday 0, Capital One Cup: Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round
Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round following seven-goal rout at the Etihad Stadium
By Mark Ogden, Northern Football Correspondent, Etihad Stadium....

Can you imagine a Utd 7-0 win being written up in same way?

it's a sick joke letting vermin like him write up our games

I don't think we get to dictate who can write our match reports for the national press, so it's hardly a "sick joke".

Ogden, like Herbert and Jackson, has little integrity though. He clearly lets his partisanship influence his reporting, which gives him no credibility as a journalist.

 

[George Hannah]

Agenda of the Manchester Football Correspondent...
A lot of our problems are down the fact that the journalist nominally assigned to cover City ihome games is often the journalist who covers all thing raggy.

Consider the Telegraph where the so called "Northern" football correspondent, one Mark Ogden He is a rag. Ran a united fanzine and worked for MUTV before getting the job at the Telegraph. Whenever he gets a City game to report on it is written through red tinted glasses. Consider Yesterdays match report:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/league-cup/11119054/Tottenham-Hotspur-3-Nottingham-Forest-1-Capital-One-Cup-match-report-Championship-leaders-denied.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... enied.html</a>

Can you imagine a Utd 7-0 win being written up in same way?

it's a sick joke letting vermillion vermin like him write up our games

I don't think we get to dictate who can write our match reports for the national press, so it's hardly a "sick joke".
Ogden, like Herbert and Jackson, has little integrity though. He clearly lets his partisanship influence his reporting, which gives him no credibility as a journalist.

Doesn't matter who chooses to let him discharge his anti-City effluent in match reports - it's still a sick joke.

 

[mad4city]

Agenda of the Manchester Football Correspondent...
A lot of our problems are down the fact that the journalist nominally assigned to cover City ihome games is often the journalist who covers all thing raggy.

Consider the Telegraph where the so called "Northern" football correspondent, one Mark Ogden He is a rag. Ran a united fanzine and worked for MUTV before getting the job at the Telegraph. Whenever he gets a City game to report on it is written through red tinted glasses. Consider Yesterdays match report:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/league-cup/11119054/Tottenham-Hotspur-3-Nottingham-Forest-1-Capital-One-Cup-match-report-Championship-leaders-denied.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... enied.html</a>

Manchester City 7 Sheffield Wednesday 0, Capital One Cup: Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round
Manuel Pellegrini's side stroll into fourth round following seven-goal rout at the Etihad Stadium
By Mark Ogden, Northern Football Correspondent, Etihad Stadium
Frank Lampard was supposed to offer no more than experienced cover at Manchester City, but his loan move to the Etihad Stadium is developing into the fairytale of the New Yorker.
A crucial equalising goal against Chelsea at the weekend and now two in a seven-goal Capital One Cup rout of Sheffield Wednesday, which was capped by a young supporter running on to the pitch to pose for a selfie with the former England midfielder.
Not bad for starters for the 36-year-old, whose loan from New York City FC is due to expire at the beginning of February. But Manuel Pellegrini, the City manager, admitted after this third-round tie that Lampard may yet stick around at the Etihad Stadium for the remainder of the season if he continues to impress.
Such a move may not be too well received in Manhattan and in the Fifth Avenue offices of Major League Soccer but, with both clubs owned by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al Nahyan, Lampard’s situation is clearly a complex one and it may have to wait longer than expected to become an Englishman in New York. “We will do what is best for the team and the player,” Pellegrini said.
“We must talk about a lot of things, but it is not impossible for him to stay here. It is an issue that we will see further down the line. We will see what happens in January and we have two or three months to decide. He is a very important player for our team and maybe, at 36, he cannot play three games in a row. But Frank is a top player.”
Wherever Lampard plies his trade in the new year, he is proving that he will contribute more than a famous name and pedigree to the team for which he plays. Prior to Lampard’s opener in this game, Wednesday had frustrated the Premier League champions in an evenly fought first half. But with the veteran one of City’s few impressive performers in the opening period, it was apt that he scored the first goal to set the home side on their way to victory.
With the Capital One Cup final on March 1 and Lampard due back in the United States for the start of the MLS season two weeks later, there may yet be a temptation on the player’s part to pursue a third winner’s medal in the competition should City progress to the latter stages.
Whether New York City would be prepared to accommodate Lampard’s desire to remain in Manchester is another matter but, if the midfielder sustains this form, Pellegrini would be foolish to allow him to leave.
The City manager had gone into the game emphasising the need to rotate his squad, with the club entering a taxing period of seven games in 21 days, but the Chilean selected a surprisingly strong starting XI to face Championship opponents.
Willy Caballero, City’s Argentine goalkeeper, was the only player on the home side not to have represented his country, with Pellegrini packing his team with the seasoned experience of Yaya Touré, Lampard and many of last season’s title-winning squad. Youngsters such as Dedryck Boyata, Jose Angel Pozo and Sinan Bytyqi were overlooked and named on the bench, but despite the formidable strength of City’s XI, Wednesday were neither overawed nor overpowered in the first half.
In sixth place in the Championship, pursuing a return to the top flight for the first time since relegation in 2000, Wednesday displayed energy and tenacity as they met the challenge of facing the champions head on in the early stages. But for poor finishing by centre-forward Gary Madine, Stuart Gray’s team should have taken the lead as early as the seventh minute.
Madine, the archetypal lower-league journeyman, possessed the brawn to trouble Martin Demichelis and Eliaquim Mangala, but he lacked the finishing touch and only he will know how he failed to trouble Caballero with a free header from Jacques Maghoma’s pinpoint cross – a chance wasted. But Wednesday continued to test City, with Maghoma, Stevie May and Liam Palmer enjoying more of the ball than their direct opponents.
Only Lampard and James Milner displayed anything like the commitment and desire required for City, who only created sporadic chances in the opening period. Milner had a close-range shot saved by Chris Kirkland, while Mangala rattled the post with a left-foot volley from Aleksandar Kolarov’s corner. Other than a tame Dzeko header, easily saved by Kirkland, City failed to go close to opening the scoring before the interval.
It all changed after half-time, however, with Lampard scoring on 47 minutes after being teed up by Jesús Navas’s near-post cross. From that point on, Wednesday found themselves washed away by a blue tide, with Dzeko making it 2-0 six minutes later, again from a Navas assist.
The Spain winger then scored a third with a strike that beat Kirkland after initially hitting the bar, before Touré scored with a penalty after Kamil Zayatte was dismissed by referee Paul Tierney for a foul on Lampard. Dzeko made it 5-0 on 77 minutes before the teenager Pozo scored a debut goal in the 90th minute. Lampard then made it 7-0 three minutes into stoppage time.
“We had a mad nine-minute period when they scored three and showed the gulf in class between the Premier League and Championship,” Gray said. “We were punished for things we would not be punished for in the Championship. We were playing against world-class players, but we are back to our bread-and-butter at the weekend against Cardiff.”

Can you imagine a Utd 7-0 win being written up in same way?

I know what you mean but...
that's actually a quite fair and factual reporting of events. True, a 7-0 win for Utd wouldn't be as soberly reported but, for me anyway, all I want is a fair crack of the whip; not the yay team bullshit that one or two others get, expect and subsequently wallow in.
Admittedly, I wouldn't be sirprised if, had the result been different, Ogden was first up with the trusty dagger and it's nonsense that we have to hammer the opposition (cf the start of last season) to get that fair crack of the whip.
Having said that...

This week, two debutants scored on their debut for different clubs, 30 miles apart. According to Sky, the lad who scored for the champions needed to have his shirt number ridiculed. The lad who scored for the runners up has "a bright future".

We have a long, long way to go before this comes right but, so what, I'm in. Sounds like a giggle after the first 35 years.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

.

 

[tonea2003]

i see david icke was in full paranoia mode last night

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I posted this in another thread but it resonates here, too.

Since the beginning of the 2013/14 season, Clattenberg is the only referee to award a penalty against United, and he has awarded 6 in 4 games. In the 41 other league games refereed by everyone else, not a single penalty has been awarded.

Out of interest, do you have any theory as to why Clattenberg awards so many penalties and other referees none at all? It cannot relate to Taggart because he has been gone since the end of the 12/13 season.

I'm not sure where you get your stats from but Clattenburg has awarded 18 penalties in the last 3 seasons, which puts him pretty much slap bang in the middle of the 17 referees appointed to the Premier League. As regards the United thing and the 37 games (it's been a few years since we played 42 games a season!) without a penalty being given against them, the same is pretty much true of City, as in 37 of our 38 games no-one gave the opposition a penalty either. We did get awarded 7 of our own, which might confuse the refereeing agenda fraternity on here somewhat! Not being sarcastic Chris, but what point are you trying to make?

I'm not trying to make a point at all, but it is anomalous and the anomaly warrants discussion.

The stats are my own research, my source is the BBC website. There were 38 matches last season and there have been five so far this season so there have been 43 league games since the beginning of the 13/14 season (I had a senior moment and made it 45). That means there have been 39 games since the beginning of the 13/14 season that Clattenberg did not referee. (again, I managed to make it 41).

The discrepancy between the penalties award by Clattenberg against United and the penalties awarded by every other referee against United is vast and anomalous. The bare statistics indicate that in 3510 minutes of football played in games not refereed by Clattenberg not a single foul was committed by United in their own area, whereas in 360 minutes of football refereed by Clattenberg, six fouls were.

Your statistics about Clattenberg's General trend in terms of awarding penalties makes the anomaly even more stark. In 3 seasons he has awarded 18 penalties, 6 of them against United in the last four games. 12 penalties in three years against everyone else and six in four games against United? Wow. Did Giggs fuck his wife too?

So far as all the other referees are concerned, if Taggart was still in charge at the swamp I could understand the reluctance to award penalties against the rags for the reasons that have been discussed at length in this thread and others already. The same pattern however has been replicated since he retired, save for Clattenberg's games, so the Ferguson fear factor cannot be the explanation. Perhaps they genuinely didn't commit any fouls in the area in those 39 games that Clattenberg did not referee. There are however a number of examples of referees other than Clattenberg give United the benefit of the doubt (Mason for instance) and Clattenberg alone giving it the other way - the soft penalty on Sunday being an example. Both of those things seem to me to call for further consideration.

The comparison with us and penalties against seems to me to be a tenuous one. We accumulated 22 points more than United last season, and our win ratios and possession statistics were vastly superior. A better comparison for penalties conceded would be Spurs or Southampton whose season records were not vastly dissimilar. I would have thought a better point of comparison for us would have been Liverpool or Chelsea.

It is perhaps the discrepancy between Clattenberg's track record relating to the rags and every other referee's record that makes the statistics so remarkable. In terms of "the agenda", whatever that is, the anomaly suggests strongly that something more than mere chance is involved - unless of course in those 39 games there really were no fouls in the area, and in Clattenberg's four game there really were six. Whatever the agenda is, the anomaly would suggest that there is in fact more than one agenda at work and they do not necessarily have the same objective.

But anyway, I asked if you had any theory as to why 6 penalties were awarded against United in 360 minutes of football by Clattenberg, and none in 3,510 minutes by everybody else, and the answer seems to be that you don't. I wasn't picking a fight, I simply wondered if you could readily explain it.

I think I was misreading your original post slightly, but, in answer to your question, no, I have no explanation for it. Of note to me though is that it certainly gives lie to the agendaist claim that Clattenburg is a rag. Not only 6 penalties against the rags, but he hasn't been rebuked, demoted or anything else as far as I can see! My only hope is that he gets to referee them at least another dozen times this season!