Sometimes I just love, love, love Red Cafe...

if jose went to united he would spend quiet alot of money, and he certainly wouldn't stay at united for as long as fergie has as he has always wanted his last job to be with portugal, which he has said numous times (i take it you want quotes now?), so if jose does go to united which isn't impossible but unlikely he will only prolong the downfall of united, which i suppose is the best thing united fans could hope for to be honest.
 
Sloppyjoshua said:
if jose went to united he would spend quiet alot of money, and he certainly wouldn't stay at united for as long as fergie has as he has always wanted his last job to be with portugal, which he has said numous times (i take it you want quotes now?), so if jose does go to united which isn't impossible but unlikely he will only prolong the downfall of united, which i suppose is the best thing united fans could hope for to be honest.

I don't think anyone really expects Jose to stay at United for very long if he comes, he's something of a modern day Guttman, but he'd be the one who could steady the ship and be able to cope with the immense pressure of taking over from such an iconic figure in our history. Most managers would crumble, Mourinho'd love it.

Who comes after that I've no idea, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us slip down a bit, but I'm an optimist.

oneyeartillheaven said:
It won't matter where Jose goes in a while if its not city he is fucked.

It's refreshing to see the optimism on here but there is a line, and on the other side of that line lies delusion. I'd imagine most of you are exaggerating for effect, or just taking the piss, but I feel there's a few who might be in danger of crossing that line.
 
Hmm, 20m net you say? Somewhat distorted by the Ibra/Eto'o deal I'd say, but I suppose it's good practice for Jose trying to keep Utd up there with no pot to piss in. Trouble is I can't see another Tranny on the horizon, bar the white Pele of course ;)
 
It is not delusion or chatting shit it is the slow realisation that with £1billion pound investment and more that we are going to be invincible.

when did you think a manager of jose' character managing a team like Real Madrid would ever say "If a player leaves a club and Manchester City want them, then they will go to Manchester City"

Fuck me god help 'em if we get CL
 
I completely disagree with your reading of Jose, Brwned.

In my opinion, there's absolutely no need for him to risk his perfect record and reputation in the United job. He'll have nowhere to go but down, he'll still have the monumental presence of Ferguson all over the club's mentality and payers, he'll be left with a squad which even the most diehard fan has to say is stocked with overperforming players, and he'll have little money to spend compared to his fortunes at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid. In addition to this, he'll have the Glazers to deal with as owners, and he's very outspoken.

I'm not saying that he'll come to City after Madrid as I think our owner and board has got the man they always planned to appoint in Mancini, but there is no attraction to United apart from this idea of massiveness to nick one of your own terms.

The best possible thing that United could do, is keep Phelan as number two and pass it over either Quieroz or Meulensteen. Both people who know the regimes, know the players, are well respected and successful coaches, and are "United men". The fans would accept either of these as Ferguson's hand picked replacement, neither would rock the boat but both would bring their own brand of football. It's an open secret that the 4-3-3 that you played with Ronaldo and Tevez was pretty much hounded onto Ferguson by Quieroz, and this to a man who very rarely takes the advice of others, so he must certainly respect him. The Bebe deal should also show that he respects him enough to buy a player without watching him for the first time in his managerial career, perhaps this is a precursor to Ferguson stepping aside as Madrid were sniffing around him.
United fans had a bit of a pop at him a few seasons back as he was (completely incorrectly) blamed for the 4-5-1 formation which was more defensive than you're used to, and he had a bit of a pop at Roy Keane, but times a great healer.

Meulensteen would bring a far more traditional flavour to the football as his coaching background is in similar leagues to England such as Holland, Scandinavia and the Middle East, and their football is rather similar to ours with a focus on workrate and pace. Also, after starting out as the lowly "Technical Skill Development Manager" or some other low down youth development role, he has steadily progressed through the ranks to become an essential part of United (with a brief foray to Brondby). Not bad for a man who has already won the Middle Eastern equivalent of the Champions League. He's also Dutch (which actually matters, name the last top Malian manager you saw), he has a good rapport with the fans, the board and the players. After working inside United on and off for a decade or so, at every level of the club, he'd be perfect to carry on the successes of Ferguson whilst still being tactically aware enough to change things around when needed.

Solskjaer is an obvious choice, but along with Bruce, Hughes, Robson and Cantona, he'd be picked on emotion rather than talent; none of them are good enough to be managing one of the biggest clubs in the world. Winning the Reserve League with a team of first team squad players doesn't qualify you to manage Madrid, United or Milan. Barca got very lucky in Guardiola and the idea has failed to replicate across many other clubs last season, notably Milan with Leonardo.

Mourinho at United after Ferguson would be Clough at Leeds all over again and there's absolutely no need for him to come there from your point of view, or from his point of view. People who seem to want him are playing Football Manager but with managers. Just as some believe that signing Messi will solve all of a football team's problems with no thought onto how he would fair at Stoke or wherever the fans' clubs are, United fans are looking at big names instead of the right names.
 
Damocles said:
I completely disagree with your reading of Jose, Brwned.

In my opinion, there's absolutely no need for him to risk his perfect record and reputation in the United job. He'll have nowhere to go but down, he'll still have the monumental presence of Ferguson all over the club's mentality and payers, he'll be left with a squad which even the most diehard fan has to say is stocked with overperforming players, and he'll have little money to spend compared to his fortunes at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid. In addition to this, he'll have the Glazers to deal with as owners, and he's very outspoken.

I'm not saying that he'll come to City after Madrid as I think our owner and board has got the man they always planned to appoint in Mancini, but there is no attraction to United apart from this idea of massiveness to nick one of your own terms.

The best possible thing that United could do, is keep Phelan as number two and pass it over either Quieroz or Meulensteen. Both people who know the regimes, know the players, are well respected and successful coaches, and are "United men". The fans would accept either of these as Ferguson's hand picked replacement, neither would rock the boat but both would bring their own brand of football. It's an open secret that the 4-3-3 that you played with Ronaldo and Tevez was pretty much hounded onto Ferguson by Quieroz, and this to a man who very rarely takes the advice of others, so he must certainly respect him. The Bebe deal should also show that he respects him enough to buy a player without watching him for the first time in his managerial career, perhaps this is a precursor to Ferguson stepping aside as Madrid were sniffing around him.
United fans had a bit of a pop at him a few seasons back as he was (completely incorrectly) blamed for the 4-5-1 formation which was more defensive than you're used to, and he had a bit of a pop at Roy Keane, but times a great healer.

Meulensteen would bring a far more traditional flavour to the football as his coaching background is in similar leagues to England such as Holland, Scandinavia and the Middle East, and their football is rather similar to ours with a focus on workrate and pace. Also, after starting out as the lowly "Technical Skill Development Manager" or some other low down youth development role, he has steadily progressed through the ranks to become an essential part of United (with a brief foray to Brondby). Not bad for a man who has already won the Middle Eastern equivalent of the Champions League. He's also Dutch (which actually matters, name the last top Malian manager you saw), he has a good rapport with the fans, the board and the players. After working inside United on and off for a decade or so, at every level of the club, he'd be perfect to carry on the successes of Ferguson whilst still being tactically aware enough to change things around when needed.

Solskjaer is an obvious choice, but along with Bruce, Hughes, Robson and Cantona, he'd be picked on emotion rather than talent; none of them are good enough to be managing one of the biggest clubs in the world. Winning the Reserve League with a team of first team squad players doesn't qualify you to manage Madrid, United or Milan. Barca got very lucky in Guardiola and the idea has failed to replicate across many other clubs last season, notably Milan with Leonardo.

Mourinho at United after Ferguson would be Clough at Leeds all over again and there's absolutely no need for him to come there from your point of view, or from his point of view. People who seem to want him are playing Football Manager but with managers. Just as some believe that signing Messi will solve all of a football team's problems with no thought onto how he would fair at Stoke or wherever the fans' clubs are, United fans are looking at big names instead of the right names.

Hmm, there's so much I don't agree with in your post that I don't think we'll ever come to any sort of an agreement or even understanding, but I'll give it a go!

Overperforming players? I think you've got Fletcher as probably the only one who's over-performing to any great degree. Valencia too I suppose. Who else? On the other hand you've got Carrick and Berbatov underperforming, so it's pretty even.

As for having the Glazer's to deal with, I don't really see the problem there? They've left the manager to do what he wants, they've not gotten involved in anything besides the business side of the club, they've just happily went along tearing out the soul of the club bit by bit leaving everything else to the manager. I really don't think there'd be much of a problem there, or at least no more so than at any previous club.

As I mentioned earlier, what fortunes did Mourinho have to spend at Inter? Ignoring the sales even, did he spend any more on bringing players in than we did in the same space of time? I don't really think so, although I've not looked into it that thoroughly. He's spent €42m at Madrid since he's been there, Di Maria to me seems like a Perez signing and was brought in before him so I ignored him(yes it suits my argument, I know), and it's stretching the truth to say we couldn't afford that.

As much as I love the idea of promoting from within as it's in our traditions as a club in general, especially Meulensteen with his view on how to play football, that's a huge risk. Can we afford to take a huge risk with the financial situation we're in? Querioz, a manager who was widely criticised by Portuguese fans over the past couple of years and is on the verge of being sacked, as well as leading Madrid to 4th place in his only other notable managerial move, to take over from Sir Alex? He's been crumbling under the pressure of Portugal so I see no reason why we wouldn't do the same under us initially. He might gradually improve but a couple of seasons of 4th for us is damaging financially, and it does matter a hell of a lot, so it seems no more realistic to me than Mourinho coming in. The thing with promoting from within is that when Sir Alex said he was initially going to retire people were using the same logic as you, but with McClaren - he did very well as an assistant and knew the club so well that he'd be a great candidate, they said, I think with hindsight that looks a bit silly. Meulensteen's got similarly much to prove now, and he might well go on to do that, but I can't see us as a club in the state we're in seeing that as a calculated, reliable move. There's too much riding on it, it's just not the right time.

That last paragraph's hugely patronising, but hey-ho.
 
Brwned said:
Hmm, there's so much I don't agree with in your post that I don't think we'll ever come to any sort of an agreement or even understanding, but I'll give it a go!

Overperforming players? I think you've got Fletcher as probably the only one who's over-performing to any great degree. Valencia too I suppose. Who else? On the other hand you've got Carrick and Berbatov underperforming, so it's pretty even.

One of the traits that makes Ferguson so great is the fact that he gets players to play far greater than their ability should allow. There's a reason why 75% of the players who leave Old Trafford can never regain their form there. Put it this way, how many of your squad would get into Chelsea's team, or even Arsenal's? How many would get into Spurs'?

I do like Carrick somewhat, but judging from your last few posts on the board, you seem to be overrating him a little. He isn't one of the world's best midfielders, he's functional. I seem to remember him been behind an injured Gareth Barry in Capello's squads.

As for having the Glazer's to deal with, I don't really see the problem there? They've left the manager to do what he wants, they've not gotten involved in anything besides the business side of the club, they've just happily went along tearing out the soul of the club bit by bit leaving everything else to the manager. I really don't think there'd be much of a problem there, or at least no more so than at any previous club.

Ferguson has pretty much kept the Glazers in business. He could have gone on from the start about exactly where the Ronaldo money has gone, but just like a good little worker, he's doing what he's told and shutting up. This value in the market crap is completely transparent.

Mourinho will not give the Glazers the same privilege.

As I mentioned earlier, what fortunes did Mourinho have to spend at Inter? Ignoring the sales even, did he spend any more on bringing players in than we did in the same space of time? I don't really think so, although I've not looked into it that thoroughly. He's spent €42m at Madrid since he's been there, Di Maria to me seems like a Perez signing and was brought in before him so I ignored him(yes it suits my argument, I know), and it's stretching the truth to say we couldn't afford that.

If you honestly believe that United can currently afford to spend 42 million Euro on a player, there's no possible way to argue with you about anything. There's a reason why your net spend this year is about £5m and it isn't because of lack of players available. All banter aside (which I admit the Ferguson bit was though it had a real point to make :), considering you had this whole Green and Gold campaign, I'm shocked that you know so little about your own financial position.

As much as I love the idea of promoting from within as it's in our traditions as a club in general, especially Meulensteen with his view on how to play football, that's a huge risk. Can we afford to take a huge risk with the financial situation we're in? Querioz, a manager who was widely criticised by Portuguese fans over the past couple of years and is on the verge of being sacked, as well as leading Madrid to 4th place in his only other notable managerial move, to take over from Sir Alex? He's been crumbling under the pressure of Portugal so I see no reason why we wouldn't do the same under us initially. He might gradually improve but a couple of seasons of 4th for us is damaging financially, and it does matter a hell of a lot, so it seems no more realistic to me than Mourinho coming in. The thing with promoting from within is that when Sir Alex said he was initially going to retire people were using the same logic as you, but with McClaren - he did very well as an assistant and knew the club so well that he'd be a great candidate, they said, I think with hindsight that looks a bit silly. Meulensteen's got similarly much to prove now, and he might well go on to do that, but I can't see us as a club in the state we're in seeing that as a calculated, reliable move. There's too much riding on it, it's just not the right time.

That last paragraph's hugely patronising, but hey-ho.

Quieroz you have a point on, but he was widely credited for having a large role in the best United team in years, Ferguson trusts him and he knows the systems so it would seem a logical move.

Meulensteen, as I have mentioned isn't the no mark McClaren. He has already had major success in Asia, and has had success at every level with United.

The last sentence wasn't supposed to be patronising, it was supposed to be a comment that many United fans are just looking at Mourinho because he's a big name and has a big ego, not because he fits the club.
 
You're still being patronising!

I'm shocked that you know so little about your own financial position.

I mean, can you seriously try and say that it comes across as anything but? You're very sensible but I'm not arsed with something like that.

I will say that you should read over what the €42m referred to, because I never once implied we could spend €42m on a player not would I ever want us to, as for how much we've spent, let's have a listen to Sir Alex...

...if you look at what we've done this season - and people don't recognise this - we've spent over £20m on young players.

"We've bought Chris Smalling, Mame Diouf and Javier Hernandez.

We then spent £7m on Bebe after that.
 
Well i've read all pages and the situation on United fans for me is different, i live in South Oxfordshire (season ticket holder with City) and i am yet to meet a real United fan. So i basically tar all united fans with the same brush of being plastic (even though i know that's not true) but i just cant see past it.

Same with Liverpool, Chelsea and even Arsenal to a certain extent.
 

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