Spain v England - Sun 14th July, 20:00 | Euro 2024 Final

[Churchlawtonblue]

Pep has real world class players, not presumed that because they’re English. I suppose it depends on what we mean today by world class. You have Foden and apart from a couple of spells, he was also shit. Player of tourney for you, Stones. That’s it. You played half a dozen games and of that about 50 minutes actually good. Not great, good. None of them are world class. Even if Pep took over, you would still have overhyped players who simply aren’t on the same level as the better teams. You watched it. How could you or anybody miss how overrated they really are? It’s as obvious as it is how shit Scotiand are. We accept that. You are looking for a new manager to turn a shit team into world beaters. Dream on. Could he get them to play better? You would hope so, the bar is low. Without an easy draw and a dodgy penalty you would have been home five days after us. Last night you were awful. In fact the whole tournament you sucked ass. It’s really that simple. You shouid he rejoicing that such a shit team at least got there. Convincing yourself a new manager turns it around to win things? Step away from the solvents. Another few steps, keep going. Now you’re safe.

Southgate is getting it right about not being attacking minded. Yet, those world class attacking players, failed. Why?

Because of Southgate, or,

They’re not as good as you make them out?

It’s the second option.

Still wumming lol

 

[SebastianBlue]

I thought Bellingham did better in the final than previous games, where he'd be sitting in the stands if he'd played like that for a Pep team, but as has been mentioned on here he is definitely Pogba like and individual talented players can raise their games against better opponents.

But to me this raises the issue of Grealish. I accept that England won't be able to play as patiently as City as it takes an awful lot of work and inspiration on the training ground and I don't think neither the pundits (like Lee "Get the ball forward quickly" Dixon) nor England fans would accept it. However Arsenal play in a similar way to City so if there's Rice, Saka, Foden and Grealish in the team then surely they must be able to keep hold of the ball and if Bellingham is then added to it he could be told to "Pass the fucking ball".

And talking of club combinations Maguire had been dire for the rags for years, Southgate hadn't blooded any replacements in all these internationals they play and to me got lucky with Guehi. However if he'd stumbled on Guehi 6 months earlier then it would had raised the issue of taking Tyrick Mitchell as the left footed left back. Then with club partnerships and understandings all over the pitch it wouldn't be that difficult to introduce a basic form of possession based football.

I've seen you mention Ramsdale as the keeper and I think that was also very unfortunate for England that he was dropped by Arsenal. If Southgate had any courage then dropping Pickford for Ramsdale would had been his Pep/Joe Hart moment.


The below team surely must be able to keep possession and there's also players in there who can produce big moments:


Ramsdale

Walker
Stones
Guehi
Mitchell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Watkins
Grealish

Again, completely agree.

 

[Nellies left peg]

I thought Bellingham did better in the final than previous games, where he'd be sitting in the stands if he'd played like that for a Pep team, but as has been mentioned on here he is definitely Pogba like and individual talented players can raise their games against better opponents.

But to me this raises the issue of Grealish. I accept that England won't be able to play as patiently as City as it takes an awful lot of work and inspiration on the training ground and I don't think neither the pundits (like Lee "Get the ball forward quickly" Dixon) nor England fans would accept it. However Arsenal play in a similar way to City so if there's Rice, Saka, Foden and Grealish in the team then surely they must be able to keep hold of the ball and if Bellingham is then added to it he could be told to "Pass the fucking ball".

And talking of club combinations Maguire had been dire for the rags for years, Southgate hadn't blooded any replacements in all these internationals they play and to me got lucky with Guehi. However if he'd stumbled on Guehi 6 months earlier then it would had raised the issue of taking Tyrick Mitchell as the left footed left back. Then with club partnerships and understandings all over the pitch it wouldn't be that difficult to introduce a basic form of possession based football.

I've seen you mention Ramsdale as the keeper and I think that was also very unfortunate for England that he was dropped by Arsenal. If Southgate had any courage then dropping Pickford for Ramsdale would had been his Pep/Joe Hart moment.


The below team surely must be able to keep possession and there's also players in there who can produce big moments:


Ramsdale

Walker
Stones
Guehi
Mitchell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Watkins
Grealish

That team isn’t particularly different from what we’ve seen in this tournament

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You’re right, I didn’t want them to win, not for the reasons you think. I wanted a team who played great football to win. Not a team who haven’t had a tough game in years, who were utter shit to watch win. Bad for the game.

Because we will never get out a group, doesn’t mean I don’t know what a great team, or real world class players look like. And none were wearing an England top.

We did beat Spain in the qualifying group. A real group. Who was in your group again? Lapland, The Faroes and the local scout team. You have got draws that if the Dippers had similar draws snd easy routes woukd be calling for a bribery scandal. Yet, even with all that, you were still shit to watch and were lucky as fuck to get out of the last 16. You got to the final by playing no ****. The only way it was even possible.

Don’t worry though, the next World Cup is coming home. Or is it the one after? If not that then certainly definitely the one after that, and you’ll be favourites again for every one of them. Fucking deluded.

A very bitter man. How is that chip on your shoulder? Got a bit bigger of late it would seem.

 

[Magicpole]

I have no problem scots , Irish and welsh not wanting England to win another trophy. Despite having Welsh , Irish and Scots relatives I would hate to see them lift a trophy (support them winning games but trophy winning would be a step to far). That's just part of the football makeup. I do think England though will inevitably win a trophy in the next 10 years as the money being invested in the academies by PL clubs and the hours that players can train in those academies now matching the rest of the world will produce a high volume of technically gifted players - that's what I think more than anything has led to the current crop.

You very well could, but not in the foreseeable future. Certainly not with what’s available now. Plus, you have to hope none of the others progress. Spain look like they are in the actual groove to dominate. You are nowhere near them. The score last night flattered you. The whole tournament has. You weren’t anywhere near as good as half a dozen teams you never met. Even smaller teams like Georgia played great football. Albania ffs were better to watch. What really fucks all of the rest of the IK, apart from NI who support who in the hope you don’t abandon them, and some Esngrrs fans, is listening to fucking pricks, forget what they are watching and continually spout utter shite about you. Vomit inducing statements from commentators and anabandonment if reality. So much do, that to have it end us a relief. To miss out on another 66 type national wankfest we have to endure.

Funny how only after you lost did the same people start saying football won. That attacking football won, and it did, I back Linekar saying that, it’s the fucking truth. You were depressing to watch. Joyless. Lacked any consistent cohesive movement, creativity a rare feature.

As I’ve said before, your only player who stood up and actually looked brilliant was Stones. The lad was fucking outstanding. The rest? Shat it.

 

[Magicpole]

A very bitter man. How is that chip on your shoulder? Got a bit bigger of late it would seem.

It’s not bitterness. It’s the truth. You were dross from first to last. I’m sorry if you missed that. It’s not my fault. Or, I would argue Southgate’s totally. Your world class superstars aren’t world class. World class players usually turn up.

 

[Crooked_rain]

You’re right, I didn’t want them to win, not for the reasons you think. I wanted a team who played great football to win. Not a team who haven’t had a tough game in years, who were utter shit to watch win. Bad for the game.

Because we will never get out a group, doesn’t mean I don’t know what a great team, or real world class players look like. And none were wearing an England top.

We did beat Spain in the qualifying group. A real group. Who was in your group again? Lapland, The Faroes and the local scout team. You have got draws that if the Dippers had similar draws snd easy routes woukd be calling for a bribery scandal. Yet, even with all that, you were still shit to watch and were lucky as fuck to get out of the last 16. You got to the final by playing no ****. The only way it was even possible.

Don’t worry though, the next World Cup is coming home. Or is it the one after? If not that then certainly definitely the one after that, and you’ll be favourites again for every one of them. Fucking deluded.

Would you not consider any English players world class?

Sure, some didn't perform, it can happen to the very best. Messi didn't particularly shine in the 2010 world cup. He used to actually get criticised by Argentina fans at one point around that time until they started winning things. They used to say he's not the same player for Argentina as he was for Barcelona. Obviously it changed over time. But for a while he was accused of not turning up for a Argentina when it matterd, he didn't get the love there that others did for a time.

So I wouldn't be judging players being world class on whether they had poor tournament in a poorly managed team. It's like saying De Bruyne isn't world class because Belgium under performed many times as a team. We know he clearly is world class though.

Do you think Pep Guardiola would have Foden in his team as a 10, winning leagues and picking up player of the year if he didn't think he was world class. He would look like a fish out of water at City if he wasn't world class, yet he was player of the season. If you're not top notch, you don't cut it at City and get found out quickly, ask Mr Phillips.

There is some world class English players among some overhyped and some bang average ones. I don't think the England squad on paper is anywhere near as good as people say, but there's absolutely a few quality players who play and win things at the very top level and shine in top teams. A top champions league side would dick an modern international side, it would barely be competitive.

On the other hand, Andy Robertson is about the best player Scotland have produced in about 40 years and he's just slightly above average.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It’s not bitterness. It’s the truth. You were dross from first to last. I’m sorry if you missed that. It’s not my fault. Or, I would argue Southgate’s totally. Your world class superstars aren’t world class. World class players usually turn up.

Oh I saw it alright. It was poor. I just think we can play better. You think our players are no different to yours which is laughable. If that was the case the top clubs in the PL would all have Jocks in them. Strange that there are hardly any? You must get in the blower quick to Pep and Arteta and let them know what they are missing out on. You fucking plum.

 

[mattcity5]

I thought Bellingham did better in the final than previous games, where he'd be sitting in the stands if he'd played like that for a Pep team, but as has been mentioned on here he is definitely Pogba like and individual talented players can raise their games against better opponents.

But to me this raises the issue of Grealish. I accept that England won't be able to play as patiently as City as it takes an awful lot of work and inspiration on the training ground and I don't think neither the pundits (like Lee "Get the ball forward quickly" Dixon) nor England fans would accept it. However Arsenal play in a similar way to City so if there's Rice, Saka, Foden and Grealish in the team then surely they must be able to keep hold of the ball and if Bellingham is then added to it he could be told to "Pass the fucking ball".

And talking of club combinations Maguire had been dire for the rags for years, Southgate hadn't blooded any replacements in all these internationals they play and to me got lucky with Guehi. However if he'd stumbled on Guehi 6 months earlier then it would had raised the issue of taking Tyrick Mitchell as the left footed left back. Then with club partnerships and understandings all over the pitch it wouldn't be that difficult to introduce a basic form of possession based football.

I've seen you mention Ramsdale as the keeper and I think that was also very unfortunate for England that he was dropped by Arsenal. If Southgate had any courage then dropping Pickford for Ramsdale would had been his Pep/Joe Hart moment.


The below team surely must be able to keep possession and there's also players in there who can produce big moments:


Ramsdale

Walker
Stones
Guehi
Mitchell

Rice
Bellingham
Foden

Saka
Kane/Watkins
Grealish

I've said very similar.

Having seen this tournament though, the biggest issue with the 11 you mention would be Rice. He doesn't have the technique for the 6 role. He could be fairly useful as an 8 pressing and destroying further upfield, but controlling and building play is beyond him.

Wharton needs to join City and then become the choice there for England.

 

[burning blue soul]

After watching the game last night it seems painfully obvious why City have won 4 leagues on the bounce.
We are streets ahead of the rest of the leagues tactics.
If City played Spain, even if they had Rodri, we would destroy them.