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mat
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Po and Finn have a serious bromance going on. I was convinced they were gonna go in all tongues blazing at one point.
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Star Wars VII
- Thread starter DiscoSteve
- Start date
OB1
Well-Known Member
Laughably stupid that mate.
He is a pre-existing race, and a hologram. He's also not the new Emperor.
They weren't looking for that box, it was a complete shock to Rey when she found it and the lightsaber didn't really serve any purpose in the story. They were looking for Luke before it, and still looking for Luke after it. The only purpose it served was as a story device to show Rey's developing Force powers.
I said this would be one of the idiots complaint. Firstly, it's consistently established that Ren is both still a trainee and not skilled in the Force. He is out of control, going into rage filled tantrums at his inadequacy next to Darth Vader who he worships as an idol. Rey literally even says this in the mind reading thing. Secondly, the Force in the original trilogy did not require years of training. Luke did a bit of jogging with Yoda then spent a day with him when he was dying yet beat Darth Vader. The Force being something that requires study and discipline to master is prequel shite and happily ignored. And the entire POINT of Kylo Ren is that he's inadequate. It is his defining trait.
The Empire aren't even in the film. The planet blew up because it turns out that when you blow up the safeguards that contain an entire Sun, planets can't contain this. Physics huh?
Ridiculous. Firstly, Han didn't know he was going to die and thought he was redeeming his son. The realisation after he was stabbed was about the most important line in the scene where Ren requested "that he wanted to feel whole, not torn between ideologies any more". Second, not everybody has to die in some massive and showy way in order to be an acceptable death. It helped inform the character of Ren and again reinforced his feeling of inadequacy even to the point where he would murder his father in order to feel like he belongs as a Sith. Again this isn't some deep analysis here, he literally says this in the film.
No, Finn doesn't want to murder innocent people in the pursuit of nothing at all. He never said he had a problem with killing, he said he had a problem with the First Order's ruthless slaughter of the villagers. Defending himself from people shooting at him is not the same thing at all.
This person didn't even seem to watch the film. One of the things I thought after watching it is "you'd have to try hard to hate this, not because it's so good but because all the basics are right and it's inoffensive on almost every level". But of course, internet, so you always have these morons. The fact that he was factually incorrect on numerous points that I've picked up after one watching of a dodgy camera torrent shows how much they were trying to hate it. All of his criticisms are actually addressed in the movie itself.
This wasn't a movie where risks were going to be taken and to expect otherwise would be stupid. Disney have far too much invested in this to take risks, they needed a safe pair of hands and a film that hooked people in and got the series back on track. It looks like job done: this one movie looks set to pay off the investment in one fell swoop so they can afford to be more daring next time.I think that's one of the things that really grates about the film,there's absolutely no risk taking in the film,they've nicked everything that was good about the first film to the point where it's just a predictable,lazy,soulless dirge.
You can nit pick about some of the criticisms but that's all it is, they're still mostly very valid points.I'm just thankful Abrams isn't directing the next one and there's a chance there might actually be an interesting story that's told.
I enjoyed the homage to the original series and can live with the lack of originality this time round; next time, I hope for some interesting character development and some new twists and turns.
I think that's one of the things that really grates about the film,there's absolutely no risk taking in the film,they've nicked everything that was good about the first film to the point where it's just a predictable,lazy,soulless dirge.
You can nit pick about some of the criticisms but that's all it is, they're still mostly very valid points.I'm just thankful Abrams isn't directing the next one and there's a chance there might actually be an interesting story that's told.
Ah you see that's the interesting question now.
We've seen this behaviour before from JJ Abrams. In Star Trek he relied on some of the established references and pop culture staples then established his characters to setup the next film.
Then instead of the next film doing anything, it just played out the same established references and pop culture staples. They set something up thematically which they never paid off in Into Darkness and Beyond looks like more action oriented shite with little Star Trek to it.
In The Force Awakens they've built their bridges to the original trilogy, they've setup the next generation of characters and now left us in a good place to start kicking off and forging their own path. Episode 8 is something I'm actually dreading a little due to how the Star Trek franchise was handled and the fact that the Jurassic World director is signed on to direct (which was another film that mishandled its established lore by overreliance).
Essentially they had to go safe and predictable on this film because they needed to redefine what Star Wars WAS after the prequels made it something else entirely. Now we're back into the Luke/Leia/Han galaxy and the film's Universe feels, flows and is shot how Star Wars was always meant to be. Whether they take that next leap forward or become short sighted in terms of overeliance will wait to be seen.
With that dread mentioned, Disney is attempting to make the Star Wars Universe a cinematic Universe which means they will really handle the main movies with care in an attempt to create as many well rounded characters and events as possible to spin off into.
The first spin off Rogue One is filming now and coming next year (set between Episode 3 and 4), whilst the Han Solo and Boba Fett origin stories are already in pre-production. They're going to the well pretty early for the original trilogy iconography so if their 10 years-10 films plan is going to work then the new trilogy has to be managed properly. They might be soulless money grabbers at Disney but there is creativity and artistic freedom in their ranks so hopefully the merging of the two will see Episode 8 be a bit considered.
Tugay One Cup
Well-Known Member
Shit, lost my draft so I'll keep it short(er).
As someone who enjoyed the original Star Wars films as a 90s kid but never understood the level of worship they continue to receive, I really enjoyed the film. I will have to give it a second viewing as I saw it at the IMAX and I find that that experience can make an average film seem epic.
First of all, a lot of the backlash I've seen the film receive seems to be from the "sci-fi is for kids" crowd or super fans that had way too much invested in terms of where they expected/ wanted the plot to go.
The other thing is that this film, despite being entertaining, seemed to be putting a lot of leg work in for the next two films. Sort of a prequel in itself.
As someone who enjoyed the original Star Wars films as a 90s kid but never understood the level of worship they continue to receive, I really enjoyed the film. I will have to give it a second viewing as I saw it at the IMAX and I find that that experience can make an average film seem epic.
First of all, a lot of the backlash I've seen the film receive seems to be from the "sci-fi is for kids" crowd or super fans that had way too much invested in terms of where they expected/ wanted the plot to go.
The other thing is that this film, despite being entertaining, seemed to be putting a lot of leg work in for the next two films. Sort of a prequel in itself.
Kylo Ren, I thought, was an inspired creation. When younger, I could never take Darth Vader seriously despite him supposedly being the Universe's biggest badass. Where Kylo is different is that you see him remove the mask, throw hissy fits, hear his weak, teenagey voice and immediately recognise both his naivety and indecisiveness. "Thats is so true" was one of his first lines and I thought this war a bit jarring and poor dialogue but, on reflection, it reflects that Kylo Ren isn't the stoic, "mature" villain that his idol was.
This seems to have not gone down too well with most but I think they are decisions that will pay off massively over the rest of the trilogy. He's a Vader fanboy and that's something that I find scarier than Vader himself. Think about it, it's the fanatics that take things to extremes. Kylo came across as a good guy who desperately wants to be bad, especially in that scene with Han Solo where we see the sun being drained and the light literally leave Kylo's eyes. There's an element of tragedy there to be exploited and I think Rian Johnson (superb director) and the rest will capitalise on it in the next film. I expect his arc to get much, much darker now that he's committed such a horrific sacrifice and I wouldn't be surprised if his helmet now stays firmly on until the climax of episode 9.
A few things niggled at me but, seriously, if I'm going to pick apart a film and put nostalgia aside, there was far more wrong with any of the originals. This is Star Wars, not a Kubrick film and JJ tried to make that abundantly clear in what I suspect is a middle finger to the waffley prequels.
This seems to have not gone down too well with most but I think they are decisions that will pay off massively over the rest of the trilogy. He's a Vader fanboy and that's something that I find scarier than Vader himself. Think about it, it's the fanatics that take things to extremes. Kylo came across as a good guy who desperately wants to be bad, especially in that scene with Han Solo where we see the sun being drained and the light literally leave Kylo's eyes. There's an element of tragedy there to be exploited and I think Rian Johnson (superb director) and the rest will capitalise on it in the next film. I expect his arc to get much, much darker now that he's committed such a horrific sacrifice and I wouldn't be surprised if his helmet now stays firmly on until the climax of episode 9.
A few things niggled at me but, seriously, if I'm going to pick apart a film and put nostalgia aside, there was far more wrong with any of the originals. This is Star Wars, not a Kubrick film and JJ tried to make that abundantly clear in what I suspect is a middle finger to the waffley prequels.
Last edited:
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 Oct 2012
- Messages
- 16,890
really good film this. Has the same feel and make of the old star wars films. the best part about is not having loads of cgi, it makes it seem more real. films like the hobbit were ruined because of to much as everything looked like a computer game. Po an the general for the baddies were my favorite characters and chewy of course. a modern film with a retro feel and creation 9/10 for me
Po was really likeable. I think he could've played Finn's part actually really well. Not that Finn done a wooden acting job or anything, but shocked him and the Casualty extra reject have been promoted so fast..
Po has that Han Solo sort of feel to him that he could evolve into. Whoever made the decision not to kill him off has pulled a rabbit out of the hat to see this man's potential and range.
Po has that Han Solo sort of feel to him that he could evolve into. Whoever made the decision not to kill him off has pulled a rabbit out of the hat to see this man's potential and range.
Shit, lost my draft so I'll keep it short(er).
As someone who enjoyed the original Star Wars films as a 90s kid but never understood the level of worship they continue to receive, I really enjoyed the film. I will have to give it a second viewing as I saw it at the IMAX and I find that that experience can make an average film seem epic.
First of all, a lot of the backlash I've seen the film receive seems to be from the "sci-fi is for kids" crowd or super fans that had way too much invested in terms of where they expected/ wanted the plot to go.
The other thing is that this film, despite being entertaining, seemed to be putting a lot of leg work in for the next two films.
Kylo Ren, I thought, was an inspired creation. When younger, I could never take Darth Vader seriously despite him supposedly being the Universe's biggest badass. Where Kylo is different is that you see him remove the mask, throw hissy fits, hear his weak, teenagey voice and immediately recognise both his naivety and indecisiveness.
This seems to have not gone down too well with most but I think they are decisions that will pay off massively over the rest of the trilogy. He's a Vader fanboy and that's something that I find scarier than Vader himself. Think about it, it's the fanatics that take things to extremes. Kylo came across as a good guy who desperately wants to be bad, especially in that seen with Han Solo where we see the sun being drained and the light literally leave Kylo's eyes. There's an element of tragedy there to be exploited and I think Rian Johnson (superb director) and the rest will capitalise on it in the next film. I expect his arc to get much, much darker now that he's committed such a horrific sacrifice and I wouldn't be surprised if his helmet now stays firmly on until the climax of episode 9.
A few things niggled at me but, seriously, if I'm going to pick apart a film and put nostalgia aside, there was far more wrong with any of the originals. This is Star Wars, not a Kubrick film and JJ tried to make that abundantly clear in what I suspect is a middle finger to the waffley prequels.
This guy gets it.
Some other thoughts knocking around
Rey as a character is growing on me more as the day passes. I've been thinking about her opening and all of her actions really fall under the guise of somebody who is primarily lonely. Perhaps by necessity the scavenging lifestyle didn't exactly look like it was profitable for two people, maybe because she clung on to the fantasy of her returning family. Whereas Luke was frustrated by his lifestyle and desperate to get off Tattooine, Rey became a prisoner of her own situation and in a weird Stockholm Syndrome wanted to keep her life the same. She actively tries NOT to go on adventures a few different times during the film and yearns for the familiar. She ran from the lightsaber, she ran from the initial call to adventure, she wanted to land the Falcon back immediately. Whereas Luke is forced into his decision by his wise mentor and the murder of his family, the lack of a mentor and abandonment of her family makes her want to avoid the decision. If the First Order wouldn't have gone after her then she never would have ran into the Falcon, she might have left the planet where the bar is on and gone home, she would have ran from Kylo Ren. She is forced into these situations as a defensive measure rather than Luke who went looking for trouble almost. This frames her quite differently.
There's something about the symbology of her living inside the belly of a wrecked AT-AT unit that I like that ties into the scavenger. Almost birthed out of the ashes of the Empire but in a way still relying on them to understand the world around her.
Speaking of the wreckages, I love that the First Order has more advanced ships rather than direct copies as it would have been so easy to do. These absolutely enormous wrecks just buried in deserts, outdated technology that are just left there because nobody sees the value in cleaning them up. Banger cars for all intents and purposes. They're both a constant reminder of the overwhelming threat that the Empire posed but a constant reminder of how that threat passed.
Like the original trilogy, I don't recall a single mention of the word "Sith". Might have missed it but they seemed to make a conscious effort for it to be the Jedi vs the dark side.
Luke Skywalker was treated in an absolutely brilliant way. The First Order has this superweapon that can blow up multiple planets in a single shot and harnesses the power of the Sun, yet despite this everybody of importance is focused on finding Luke. They all believe Luke is the most important man in the galaxy - Leia needs his help as part of the Resistance, Kylo Ren needs to neutralise him and Snoke feels the stirring/awakening of the Force around him. If you didn't know what happened in the Throne Room in Return of the Jedi, many could credit Luke as the hero who single handedly defeated both the Emperor and Darth Vader. He became a hero to the point where Rey and Finn believe him to be a mythological figure when meeting Han. Also, whoever did the makeup and hairstyling on Mark Hammil needs an award right now because the last shot with him as Luke Skywalker made him look absolutely perfect. That is exactly how Luke Skywalker should look at his age with the events of the training of Kylo and his fall to the Dark Side. Hamill is a billion times the actor he was in the original trilogy and has constantly worked for many years as a voice artist, so I'm really excited to see him in 8 and see how far he's developed after almost 40 years of having Luke Skywalker in his head.
Han was great, right up until he met Leia and then it fell a little flat for my tastes due to the problems I mentioned earlier with needlessly expositional scripting. To see Harrison Ford not just working but actually giving a shit for the first time in a decade is great and he really nailed the performance. The developing parental/child relationship between him and Rey made a lot of sense to me. Han was a rogueish smuggler who had to live by his wits and it feels like Rey has a bit of that inside her too; with Han the failed parent of Kylo and her parents unknown to her with the only company she's had for years a droid she found a few days earlier and a "resistance member", a supportive older figure who helped her on her way and encouraged her to be brave was a nice touch. He played the Obi Wan role without all of the mystical mumbo jumbo that Obi Wan brought to Luke, not as overtly of course but I felt like it was there during the film at points.
There's something about the symbology of her living inside the belly of a wrecked AT-AT unit that I like that ties into the scavenger. Almost birthed out of the ashes of the Empire but in a way still relying on them to understand the world around her.
Speaking of the wreckages, I love that the First Order has more advanced ships rather than direct copies as it would have been so easy to do. These absolutely enormous wrecks just buried in deserts, outdated technology that are just left there because nobody sees the value in cleaning them up. Banger cars for all intents and purposes. They're both a constant reminder of the overwhelming threat that the Empire posed but a constant reminder of how that threat passed.
Like the original trilogy, I don't recall a single mention of the word "Sith". Might have missed it but they seemed to make a conscious effort for it to be the Jedi vs the dark side.
Luke Skywalker was treated in an absolutely brilliant way. The First Order has this superweapon that can blow up multiple planets in a single shot and harnesses the power of the Sun, yet despite this everybody of importance is focused on finding Luke. They all believe Luke is the most important man in the galaxy - Leia needs his help as part of the Resistance, Kylo Ren needs to neutralise him and Snoke feels the stirring/awakening of the Force around him. If you didn't know what happened in the Throne Room in Return of the Jedi, many could credit Luke as the hero who single handedly defeated both the Emperor and Darth Vader. He became a hero to the point where Rey and Finn believe him to be a mythological figure when meeting Han. Also, whoever did the makeup and hairstyling on Mark Hammil needs an award right now because the last shot with him as Luke Skywalker made him look absolutely perfect. That is exactly how Luke Skywalker should look at his age with the events of the training of Kylo and his fall to the Dark Side. Hamill is a billion times the actor he was in the original trilogy and has constantly worked for many years as a voice artist, so I'm really excited to see him in 8 and see how far he's developed after almost 40 years of having Luke Skywalker in his head.
Han was great, right up until he met Leia and then it fell a little flat for my tastes due to the problems I mentioned earlier with needlessly expositional scripting. To see Harrison Ford not just working but actually giving a shit for the first time in a decade is great and he really nailed the performance. The developing parental/child relationship between him and Rey made a lot of sense to me. Han was a rogueish smuggler who had to live by his wits and it feels like Rey has a bit of that inside her too; with Han the failed parent of Kylo and her parents unknown to her with the only company she's had for years a droid she found a few days earlier and a "resistance member", a supportive older figure who helped her on her way and encouraged her to be brave was a nice touch. He played the Obi Wan role without all of the mystical mumbo jumbo that Obi Wan brought to Luke, not as overtly of course but I felt like it was there during the film at points.
bluefrom78
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 22 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 55
With the sabre fight at the end it needs to be remembered that
as an aside...
and with a view towards Episode 8
After Han is killed, Chewbacca shoots Kylo with his bowcaster, from previous scenes in the film you can see it hits like a train compared to blasters (stormtroopers going flying when hit by it). Finn also hurts him before getting cut up in something reminiscent of ESB just before Vader takes Luke's hand off. So the fact that she's able to beat a novice Sith with emotional issues that's already been badly hurt isn't as implausible as some people make it sound.
as an aside...
In the scene where Rey's being interrogated you get Kylo Ren going through her mind and at one point says "you see an ocean... with an island in it..." (or words to that effect) and where do they find Luke? Or am I just reading too much into it?
and with a view towards Episode 8
With Snoke saying at the end "Bring Kylo Ren to me and I will complete his training" and Rey obviously going to undergo Jedi training with Luke I'm expecting Episode 8 to have a dual trainng montage a la Rocky IV with a pop/rock power ballad followed by a climactic battle scene. There may also be Luke carried around in a rucksack on Rey's back during the training. :)