Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

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It’s the media narrative that gets all the hate on the crossing!

They could come from a different angle ! Saying we going to have possessing offices and buildings in France and England we going to process them as quick as we can because this country need young healthy mend and woman to come here wanting to work to make this country much greater! We don’t want them risking there lives on the channel crossings, so all young motivated immigrants are welcome!
 
Mon Autre said:
I'd say the bigotry and the racism present in the thread are more disgraceful than a few cuss words.
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To paraphrase the old saying;
’sticks and stones - and fire-bombs- may break my bones, but names will never hurt me’.
I haven’t heard of many people who want a fair and sensible immigration policy and some humanity to be shown, hurling incendiary devices around.
 
Bodicoteblue said:
To paraphrase the old saying;
’sticks and stones - and fire-bombs- may break my bones, but names will never hurt me’.
I haven’t heard of many people who want a fair and sensible immigration policy and some humanity to be shown, hurling incendiary devices around.
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Me neither, and yet some people seem to find more violence in the idea of someone correctly calling Braverman a c*nt than they do in Suella Braverman's actions. Pre-school levels of emotional intelligence.
 
Mon Autre said:
Me neither, and yet some people seem to find more violence in the idea of someone correctly calling Braverman a c*nt than they do in Suella Braverman's actions. Pre-school levels of emotional intelligence.
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Absolutely, but assuming we ideally want the racists (on here and in general) to see our point of view and change theirs calling them cunts, nonces, nazis etc may not be the best way to achieve this - just as calling people stupid, racist etc didn't convert them from leavers to remainers. I'm not saying abuse isn't deserved, just that it probably doesn't achieve anything except shutting down discussion and entrenching views. People will just hunker down in their bunkers and quietly do their thing in the ballot box - hey presto a Tory landslide and brexit, or in this case maybe a narrow Tory win and repatriations.

I'm not naive enough to think we can convert all the bigots to libertarian values, but even a few could tip the scales of a narrow vote from a couple of % one way to the other.
 
Chris in London said:
How about the fact that he stigmatises them as being illegal entrants to the country based on nothing more substantial than that they are foreign?

By the way, if you are being persecuted by (say) the Afghan government, if they see you queuing up at the British Embassy in Kabul, do you think the persecution would reduce, increase or stay the same?
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Has he ever said he has issue with immigration as a concept? If so then yeah racist otherwise he’s just a twat who is using smoke and mirrors to deflect.

Regarding the second question. Interesting one that. You’d have to conclude it wouldn’t reduce the risk but what is the alternative? No immigration process whatsoever and we just tell them to pitch up at the airport and we’ll keep sending planes to ferry them to the UK? That seems wholly unworkable as a standard operating procedure given hostile governments would never allow it and would require military intervention - possible on an ad-hoc basis where genocide or all at war is occurring but it will have a very short time of operation (such as the evacuation from Kabul - ignoring how that didn’t work for some/many trying to flee as that’s a problem of implementation not concept). Anyone routinely fleeing some level of persecution based on religion or sexual orientation etc will likely flee under their own steam as they do today…once they present at first safe country then the UK should have a means to allow them to apply for asylum here via the consulate - additionally they can seek refuge in their local British embassy presuming their local government isn’t hostile. Those who want to come for economic reasons can apply at their local embassy/consulate.

There is no perfect solution to the problem - only choices. We choose to make it difficult to arrive here - we choose to then spend huge amounts of time, effort and money on removing those who take the difficult route. In short we are dealing with the consequence not the cause. If we brought in a fairer system then removing those who don’t qualify to live here would be much simpler to implement given they would have exhausted all legal routes before opting on the only one left to them which would be an illegal route.
 
waspish said:
It’s the media narrative that gets all the hate on the crossing!

They could come from a different angle ! Saying we going to have possessing offices and buildings in France and England we going to process them as quick as we can because this country need young healthy mend and woman to come here wanting to work to make this country much greater! We don’t want them risking there lives on the channel crossings, so all young motivated immigrants are welcome!
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I've recently started acting as my brother's primary carer; the challenges we're facing getting a care package sorted and the absolute disrepair that the government has allowed health and social care to get into makes me despair about our infantile dialogue about immigration.

It also got me thinking about the care/support he's had in the past. One thing that struck me was that the best quality of personal care he has received in terms of diligence and dignity has (literally) always been provided by immigrants and specifically by black immigrants. Now that might just of course be coincidence (or a simple numbers game based on the demographics in the care sector). However, I remember one of the guys who came in to bathe my brother when he lived with my sister. He was by far my brothers favourite and I could understand why, he treated him with great compassion and respect and not a little humour. I once had a chat with him from which an observer could have taken away two things....(1) his English was heavily accented and still developing so it required quite bit of effort on both our parts to have the conversation (2) the much more important thing was the distinct sense you got that emotionally (and possibly culturally I would suggest) he considered what he was doing to not be an 'entry level' job but something of real importance and value.

I suppose my only point is that whilst our politicians pander to and feed narratives to people who would prefer to focus on the first of those takeaways rather than the second, we will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot economically and in other ways too.
 
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threespires said:
I've recently started acting as my brother's primary carer. The challenges we're facing getting a care package sorted and the absolute disrepair that the government has allowed health and social care to get into makes me despair about our infantile dialogue about immigration.

It also got me thinking about the care/support he's had in the past. One thing that struck me was that the best quality of personal care he has received in terms of diligence and dignity has (literally) always been provided by immigrants and specifically by black immigrants. Now that might just of course be coincidence (or a simple numbers game based on the demographics in the care sector). However, I remember one of the guys who came in to bathe my brother when he lived with my sister. He was by far my brothers favourite and I could understand why, he treated him with great compassion and respect and not a little humour. I once had a chat with him from which an observer could have taken away two things....(1) his English was heavily accented and still developing so it required a quite bit of effort on both our parts to have the conversation (2) the much more important thing was the distinct sense you got that emotionally (and possibly culturally I would suggest) he considered what he was doing to not be an 'entry level' job but something of real importance and value.

I suppose my only point is that whilst our politicians pander to and feed narratives to people who would prefer to focus on the first of those takeaways rather than the second, we will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot economically and in other ways too.
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Really well put, I’m in a care home at the minute the majority of careers are immigrants and they do a great job, one of the worries is the NHS haven’t got the capacity to put me up in a hospital and if it wasn’t for immigrants who’d be looking after people in my situation.
 
west didsblue said:
Half agree with you.
It's designed to create just one baying mob who don't need much convincing that the terrible state of the country is down to a few thousand people arriving on a rubber dinghy into a country with a population of 68 million. The rest of us want a competent government to put a system in place that can efficiently deal with immigration and asylum in a manner that allows the persecuted and those that qualify to stay and quickly deports the chancers and criminals, rather than locking them all up together in squalid conditions whilst blaming the system for which they have been responsible for the last 12 years.
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Spot on. And what the Tories are brilliant at as a way of staying in power is creating fear amongst a section of the electorate. They did it in the 80s, same playbook now and over the last few years.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Think they're covered under race. Depends on whether you define them as a race or a species I suppose.
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My son's ginger mate always responds to gingerism by claiming gingers are actually genetically superior, he has a series of 'facts' to back this up along the lines of 'gingers are less susceptible to rickets'.

He also claims it's taken as a given that gingers are 'hotter', but it has been pointed out to him that that is normally said in reference to a particular type of Irish woman and/or the likes of Isla Fisher and Amy Adams rather than teenage brummies sporting a buzz cut.
 
threespires said:
He also claims it's taken as a given that gingers are 'hotter', but it has been pointed out to him that that is normally said in reference to a particular type of Irish woman and/or the likes of Isla Fisher and Amy Adams rather than teenage brummies sporting a buzz cut.
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This bit made me laugh :)
 
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