Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

[Brooklands Blue]

She’s done.

She went off script without number 10s permission. She got a raft of alterations to make to her times column from number 10 and just ignored them.

She’s branded 500,000 normal British citizens - expressing their hard won rights to freedom - antisemites on a hate march.

She incited far right violence against the police.

The main protest went on peacefully and had “a family atmosphere” according to the news reports.

No chance of staying in the job, no chance of a leadership bid.

Mate I'm in London ahead of the game tomorrow and didn't see the neanderthal edl rabble so cant comment. I watched the main peaceful rally witnessed several people dressed with Hamas headbands. I have also saw several placards some of the most offensive antisemitic slogans depicted. These 2 separate sets of people are the different cheek of the same repugnant arse.

 

[Username Required]

Haig was a more complex character than Blackadder and Oh! What a Lovely War would have you believe.

In terms of popular perception, the First World War is arguably the most misunderstood chapter in British history.

Can you point me in the right direction for something that would challenge / correct my perception?

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Historically, almost all wars have been caused by politicians, royalty and the clergy (or been fought "in the name of god"). Yet all three groups have pride of place at the Cenotaph each year.

Not many of those groups die in the fighting either there would be no more wars if they were made to serve on the frontline… the service men parading proudly past and the veterans remembering their fallen comrades are proud to walk past the cenotaph.

 

[BrianW]

A good overview of WWI is Alan Mallinson's book Too Important for the Generals: Winning and Losing the First World War (2017).

Mallinson is a retired senior soldier, so he knows his stuff. I found his account very even-handed.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Can you point me in the right direction for something that would challenge / correct my perception?

There is no "correct" perception, but there has been a reappraisal of Haig in recent years...

You might find this useful to watch....



I'm a member of The Western Front Association it's a treasure trove for anyone interested in the First World War, though it does have a heavy British emphasis.....



The Great War YouTube channel is outstanding, one of the options on this site, is you can follow the war as it "progressed" week by week....



https://www.youtube.com/@TheGreatWar

And these Timeline documentaries are well worth a watch...



There's an ocean of books on the First World War, if I had to recommend just one it would be...

This is quite a meaty book, I got this one in audio and listened to it in the car.

 

[Ducado]

Not many of those groups die in the fighting either there would be no more wars if they were made to serve on the frontline… the service men parading proudly past and the veterans remembering their fallen comrades are proud to walk past the cenotaph.

The vast majority of the the lads who fought in WW1 on both sides would have been regular attendees at their chosen place of worship, times were different

 

[Rascal]

Today in the pub I was called a "Paki loving ****" for saying i fully supported the right for anyone to march in protest. For context we were discussing the peace for Palestine march.

On here in the past I have wrote I fully support the rights of the far right to protest, i totally disagree with them, but that does not change my belief they should be allowed to protest. The far right do not believe in the right of protest, because they are authoritarians and are the true believers in cancel culture and English exceptionalism. They are not patriots, they are nationalists and some without doubt are ethno nationalists.

Braverman and Sunak have emboldened the far right to believe they are the mainstream, it is incalcuable how much damage they have done with their dog whistle politics. Calling a peace march a "hate" march is simply disgusting, creating a false narrative that Armistice Day is being undermined by a peace march is appalling rhetoric.

There is no doubt in my mind that the actions of Braverman and Sunak have encouraged far right violence, they have given them licence to be racist just as Trump did with the Proud Boys, that given the heritage of the tories is somewhat bewildering as they would be purged under the authority of the ethno nationlist tight. They are turkeys voting for their right to be a xmas dinner, but they are soaked in their desire for power they are happy to be the turkeys.

The Palestine/Israel conflict is being discussed on another thread by people far more qualified to comment than me, i simply do not know enough to have an expressed opinion, I just want an end to the killing of kids, kids on both sides btw, as it is not their fault.

It breaks my fucking heart, that people can be so cruel, so dismissive of difference based on notions of nationalism and ethnicity.

I am reading a book by the right wing author Peter Oborne called "The fate of Abraham" his conclusions are eye opening, if you want to know more buy it, it may give you an insight into what is happening today. I warn you, it is so batshit crazy its scary.

 

[Rascal]

Very sad

Can you explain why it is very sad?

 

[law74]

Actually, I think she has a very fair chance of being elected Leader of the Opposition.

But I think it unlikely that the Tories under her leadership could hope to win a GE.

I think she will be the nextleader of the Tory party, but maybe not the opposition, as I can see the lib dems getting more seats in the nextgeneral election than the tories, through the effects of higher interest rates which wont really effect many until their 5 year fixed rate mortgages end (many in the next 12 months, or those nearing an end who will need to find another £300 -£400 a month, aand the knock on effect this will have on local hairdressers, chippys, cafes etc, tactical voting, and disenfranchised torys being unwilling to switch to Labour but either going Lib-Dems or not voting at all.

She’s done.

She went off script without number 10s permission. She got a raft of alterations to make to her times column from number 10 and just ignored them.

She’s branded 500,000 normal British citizens - expressing their hard won rights to freedom - antisemites on a hate march.

She incited far right violence against the police.

The main protest went on peacefully and had “a family atmosphere” according to the news reports.

No chance of staying in the job, no chance of a leadership bid

She is playing political games.
Either Sunak sacks her, and she can distance herself from the impending electoral wipe out, or her and the far right extreme of the party bid to oust Sunak in the Autumn, or he shows himself to be spineless and let her continue taking the tories into the abyss

 

[LesBleuMiserable]

Mate I'm in London ahead of the game tomorrow and didn't see the neanderthal edl rabble so cant comment. I watched the main peaceful rally witnessed several people dressed with Hamas headbands. I have also saw several placards some of the most offensive antisemitic slogans depicted. These 2 separate sets of people are the different cheek of the same repugnant arse.

It’s amazing how someone can identify an item as Hamas headband. Did not realise there was such a thing.

For a million marching with families and kids seeking a ceasefire to be compared to the Far Right. Politics hey. For good measure through the anti semitic card to discredit the good people.