Summer Transfers

Here's a performance matrix of our defenders with others that I could see us going for this summer or that we have been linked to. I've just added Keane for the sake of comparison.

29mwzv7.jpg


r2ozdl.jpg
 
salfordbluetrue said:
Charlie Adam has just come out and said roughly what i have Jack Butland. i do not believe Hart has gone for his on field exploits , and he is better by a long way than what we have but so is Butland, and of course he still has 10 years left to play
Click to expand...

My mate knows Jack Butland and has told me that his representatives have had meetings with City. I don't know if these were exploratory or firming things up. Also, given Willy's form over the past few weeks, Willy will be in the frame for number 2 next season.
 
bluesingh said:
Here's a performance matrix of our defenders with others that I could see us going for this summer or that we have been linked to. I've just added Keane for the sake of comparison.

29mwzv7.jpg


r2ozdl.jpg
Click to expand...

I think @Dax777 might actually be right about Bonucci, his numbers aren't really impressive.
 
birchwoodgingerste said:
Stats can be misleading juventus are far superior to a Burnley or a boro at the back so therefore as a defender the top teams will do less blocks and have less interceptions .
Click to expand...

When it comes to Bonucci, arguably his tackles/interceptions are secondary to his passing and perhaps more so his vision.



I don't know if we'll be in on him, I'd have considered another run on Laporte to be on the cards, but he would certainly be a good fit in Pep's system and wouldn't be the weak link many are suggesting.
 
Bonucci would be great here but again the 50m required for him is too much especially as he is 30 in May.

What if he gets injured? What if he doesn't settle quickly, makes a few mistakes and gets destroyed by the media like Bravo? We could get both Gibson and Keane together for less than 50m. Much better value for money and less of a risk. From what I've seen of Gibson, we should get him. Was Boro's standout player when we played them in quarter-finals. He is cheap, young, and English. Haven't seen much of Keane but is apparently very good and Burnely have been unbreakable at home. Also with new fullbacks our defense will look much,much better, who ever plays there. Getting Gibson/Keane would be my pick.
 
Seen quite a bit of Gibson this season and he's been very impressive. Very solid defensively and comfortable on the ball perfect squad addition if we can get him for around the 20M mark. Would take Keane as an alternative aswell but think Gibson edges over him in ability. If we sell Otamendi and Vinnie then add Bonucci aswell as one of the two English prospects then we'll have a well balanced set of centre backs going forward.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
i think he'd be class tbh, very good defender. boro have an excellent defensive record. if it was for a squad place i think he'd be worth it. an all english pairing of stones and gibson would be nice to see.
Click to expand...

Average. He looks half decent in a team who rarely get out of their own half.

This club has aspirations to be on the shelf of Madrid and Barca, Ben bleeding Gibson is not the answer if we are to close the gap on the big boys!
 
birchwoodgingerste said:
Stats can be misleading juventus are far superior to a Burnley or a boro at the back so therefore as a defender the top teams will do less blocks and have less interceptions .
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but pay attention to defensive errors, tackles lost, % of tackles lost as a function of tackles entered.

Take the last one for example, notice how everyone is at about 50% or above. With Otamendi being the worst at 47%, Stones at 50, Gibson at 52% and Keane at 58%. Bonucci's by comparison is at 39%. On average he is at about 10 to 15% lower than everyone else. That is a flag for anyone no matter how you dice it.

It is not definitive, but you'd probably like to know why he seems unusually weak at winning tackles. This stat doesn't surprise me, I've been seeing it in games.

And then there are stats not listed but you can deduce from the other stats. For example, for a defender often with the least amount of challenges attempted its a bad sign that he has such a high number of fouls commited. He commits a foul in one out of 3 tackles attempted. As opposed to 1 out of every 5 for Otamendi.

Yes, stats are not everything.But it sure isn't pointing to leader or defensive stalwart by any stretch of the imagination.

From the stats listed above, we can conclude he is good at scoring from corners (he scores more), decent at passing it out of the back (on per with Ota and weaker than Stones), great at interceptions (Only inferior to Otamendi) and then he is the worst or 2nd to worst in every other category.

The Stat that should give everyone the most pause is errors committed. He is 2nd only to Stones. 29 year old playing for the same team for years having the 2nd most errors per game is a HUGE red flag. Like Trump huge!

I mean, what can we expect when he switches to a different, faster and more physical league with a language barrier and weather changes to deal with? Hmmmm!

If you look at those stats from an overall perspective, you'd have to conclude he is the worst of the 5 players listed above statistically. That doesn't prove anything. But it says something.

It would behoove us not to pay closer attention rather than just assume he is great coz Pep praised him once and he does deliver beautiful Hollywood balls a few times a game. :(
 
Last edited:
Easy said:
Bonucci would be great here but again the 50m required for him is too much especially as he is 30 in May.

What if he gets injured? What if he doesn't settle quickly, makes a few mistakes and gets destroyed by the media like Bravo? We could get both Gibson and Keane together for less than 50m. Much better value for money and less of a risk. From what I've seen of Gibson, we should get him. Was Boro's standout player when we played them in quarter-finals. He is cheap, young, and English. Haven't seen much of Keane but is apparently very good and Burnely have been unbreakable at home. Also with new fullbacks our defense will look much,much better, who ever plays there. Getting Gibson/Keane would be my pick.
Click to expand...

Bonucci is arguably the best CB in the world and has been for years, he ticks every box that Pep loves, and Italian defenders get better with age. People are whinging about the price tag, but he could easily play for 4+ years, so it's hardly a waste of money. We'd end up paying the same for Laporte who might never be as good as him.
 
citizens_1976 said:
Average. He looks half decent in a team who rarely get out of their own half.

This club has aspirations to be on the shelf of Madrid and Barca, Ben bleeding Gibson is not the answer if we are to close the gap on the big boys!
Click to expand...

is it because his name is ben gibson you dont like him ? or that he plays for boro ? or that maybe hes English?. he could end up beign one of the best centre backs in the league and all the big club are looking at him, so i dont see a risk tbh. young, english and talented. unless we just spend 50m on every single player and only buy world class talent. we need to start buying players with potential that pep can mould into top calls talent - like stones.
 
Last edited:
citizens_1976 said:
But when you weigh it up, most of our best players came from outside the premier leagur, our core if you like.

Vincent Kompany - Hamburg
Yaya Toure - Barcelona
Pablo Zabaleta - Espanyol
David Silva - Valencia
Sergio Aguero - Atletico Madrid
Kevin De Bruyne - Wolfsburg

Seriously, where would we be without most of these players, if not all of them?

Teams are always going to sign good players and bad players abroad, but if you weigh it up the success rate of buying outside the premier league is much higher than buying premier league proven players. Having said that, I would take Alexis Sanchez in a heartbeat, but my gripe is we need technical players to play the Guardiola way, most british players don't possess the football brain Pep wants. Having said that, our academy teams look like they are being coached the proper pep way of playing. So its simple, buy from abroad, bring homegrown through the academy and don't piss your money down the drain on british premier league players.
Click to expand...
If that list tells us anything, its that we should focus on Spain and Germany :-)
 
citizens_1976 said:
But when you weigh it up, most of our best players came from outside the premier leagur, our core if you like.

Vincent Kompany - Hamburg
Yaya Toure - Barcelona
Pablo Zabaleta - Espanyol
David Silva - Valencia
Sergio Aguero - Atletico Madrid
Kevin De Bruyne - Wolfsburg

Seriously, where would we be without most of these players, if not all of them?

Teams are always going to sign good players and bad players abroad, but if you weigh it up the success rate of buying outside the premier league is much higher than buying premier league proven players. Having said that, I would take Alexis Sanchez in a heartbeat, but my gripe is we need technical players to play the Guardiola way, most british players don't possess the football brain Pep wants. Having said that, our academy teams look like they are being coached the proper pep way of playing. So its simple, buy from abroad, bring homegrown through the academy and don't piss your money down the drain on british premier league players.
Click to expand...

Well I think that the individual qualities of the player are far more important than their provenance, and though I don't disagree that we have had excellent players from overseas and probably better than premier league players I don't think this holds for our players from Italy of whom we have had quite a few and more generally I don't think the premier league has been particularly successful with Italian players recently especially amongst the top clubs.
Alonso has done a decent job at Chelsea but no better than premier league Moses on the other side. Darmian and Pogba have been lacklustre for the rags. and none of the ones I have listed were particularly good buys for us.

None of this is to say that Bonucci would not be a good signing for us but to take him partly on the basis that he is from outside the Premier League and therefore more likely to be a success than a premier proven player is not really an argument I would agree with.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
is it because his name is ben gibson you dont like him ? or that he plays for boro ? or that maybe hes English?. he could end up beign one of the best centre backs in the league and all the big club are looking at him, so i dont see a risk tbh. young, english and talented. unless we just spend 50m on every single player and only buy world class talent. we need to start buying players with potential that pep can mould into top calls talent - like stones.
Click to expand...

Take Gibson out of a very defensive team like Boro and put him in an open mid table team which lacks discipline and lets see how he copes.

He would not get in Barca's squad, he would not get in Madrid's squad, so why should we have him? Need to set our standards very very high from now on.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
is it because his name is ben gibson you dont like him ? or that he plays for boro ? or that maybe hes English?. he could end up beign one of the best centre backs in the league and all the big club are looking at him, so i dont see a risk tbh. young, english and talented. unless we just spend 50m on every single player and only buy world class talent. we need to start buying players with potential that pep can mould into top calls talent - like stones.
Click to expand...

I'm not too sure Gibson is the best option tbh. I've lived in Teesside for around 9 years so end up going to 2/3 boro games a season. Also most of my mates are boro fans and they would tell you themselves that he probably isn't good enough for where we want to be, or worth the money mentioned.

Until this season Gibson wasn't even considered boro's best centre half, Ayala was the stand out man and he's not exactly young at 24. There were a few doubts from boro fans pre season that he could make the step up but he has done well this season, especially in the absence of Ayala who suffered with injuries and fell out with the manager. Gibson is good under pressure though and capable on the ball, Friend or Fabio leave him in the lurch all the time and he copes well. He's also left sided so that's a bonus too.

If it was me I wouldn't really fancy taking a punt on him next season though he could be one to take a look at in the future as long as he doesn't go to a top top team.
 
citizens_1976 said:
Take Gibson out of a very defensive team like Boro and put him in an open mid table team which lacks discipline and lets see how he copes.

He would not get in Barca's squad, he would not get in Madrid's squad, so why should we have him? Need to set our standards very very high from now on.
Click to expand...

most players wouldn't get into barcas or reals squad though. you could argue zaba, clichy, korlarov, stones wouldn't get into their squads. you can't just buy a squad of galacticos you need players that fit the squad and the team as well. i.e. exactly like what gareth barry did. he might not start as a first teamer, but i personally think he'd be at least a good squad addition.
 
So,after today,and if it wasnt before.......i think its very apparent to even the most optimistic of fan,that this squad needs dismantling.

So,who's safe?

Stones
Silva
KDB
Gundogan
Sane
Sterling
Jesus
Fernandinho

Anyone else?
 
FantasyIreland said:
So,after today,and if it wasnt before.......i think its very apparent to even the most optimistic of fan,that this squad needs dismantling.

So,who's safe?

Stones
Silva
KDB
Gundogan
Sane
Sterling
Jesus
Fernandinho

Anyone else?
Click to expand...
Kolarov and maybe Aguero if he's happy to rotate. And one of the keepers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top