Swansea (a) Post Match Thread

Did Otamendi dive in all the time when he was playing in Spain? Difficult to see how he got such a decent reputation if he did, unless he just had an incredible season where more or less every time he dived in it worked out well?

I posted recently that I suspect he got away with it because the pace of the game in Spain is slower and the players aren't as strong/quick in general. I think he's been caught out loads of times by the pace/strength of a player he's coming up against.
 
I would tend to agree with DB. Sure you can improve players and coach certain things out of them, but there's IMO too many inherent flaws in both Mangala's and Otamendi's game. Personally I think Ota will be the one who survives simply because he backs himself when he gets given the ball at his feet (not matter how naive that is at times). Mangala seems to shit himself whenever he's given the ball. That won't fly for Pep i reckon.

I want a new back four because I just don't see how Vinnie is going to be a regular and I would sell either or both of Ota and Manga but I am sure both could be improved by Pep and his coaches. Also, get the whole team drilled in Pep's approach and have them moving togther and in the right areas and that will help whoever we have at CB.
 
Thank you West Ham. We've certainly had some luck this season.

Yes, and they had none yesterday. Battered Stoke and could not score the second to kill the game. Unlike against United it cost them and now United need to win the cup to get them into Europe. This season ends as bizarrely as ever.
 
I want a new back four because I just don't see how Vinnie is going to be a regular and I would sell either or both of Ota and Manga but I am sure both could be improved by Pep and his coaches. Also, get the whole team drilled in Pep's approach and have them moving togther and in the right areas and that will help whoever we have at CB.

I think Otamendi stays, Mangala goes, and Vinny gets a year to prove his fitness. I think we'll sign at least two defenders if not three.

There's a lot of players who IMO are on a knife edge. Maybe more than we even realise. There will be big name casualties this summer but only a fool would bet on who they will be outside of Yaya.
 
No emotional day of closure for me whatsoever. If you go back far enough on here, you'll find me criticising Pellegrini as far back as the Cardiff away game about 3 weeks into his tenure, when he had 2 one paced coffin dodger centre halves pushed up on the halfway line. You didn't need to be the soothsayer that you and Mr Shaelumstash have tried to pass yourselves off as in virtually every post since (something that reached its zenith about 3 months ago when the entire 'Pell not Pep' thread had to be pulled after a prolonged bout of boasting between the two of you, in which you sneered at the 'rats or weasels' who had disagreed with you, whilst simultaneously playing - without a trace of irony - the bullying card) to spot it. However, whilst we were walloping everyone in sight and playing great football in the process, it was perfectly reasonable to support his approach and to give him the time he deserved to prove that his way was the correct one, and I make no apologies for it. I thought he did a great job in his first season. All managers have their shortcomings though after all, and once opposition managers started adapting their approach against us in that 2nd season and he did not reciprocate, it was clear there was going to be a long term issue. That he turned out to be quite the disaster he was, was not foreseeable to the degree you claimed from the off, with any degree of certainty. The Premier League is a unique beast and players and managers alike need time to adapt to it by and large. Take Fernando for example. A far more effective player this year than the cart horse of 12 months ago. Are you going to start on Pep as early as you did Pellers, because believe you me there are several defeats coming under his tenure with the way he leaves the back door open, unless he is allowed to radically overhaul this squad that you claim is our strongest ever?

And on that subject, if it's as strong as you claim, why are people able to make a legitimate case for the sale of at least 5 of our current 8 defenders? As regards the 2012 vs 2016 squad debate, if you think any one of Silva, Zab, Kompers or Ya Ya is a better (or less injury prone) player now than they were then, then as I said you can't be helped. And no I can't prove it.......

Not sure why you're dragging me in to your argument, pal?

Glad you brought up the Cardiff away game because that's when I first posted on here criticising Pellegrini. I said it was suicide playing Garcia and Lescott as cebtre halves on the halfway line. I said you've got to alter your tactics to suit the players available. You've got to put square pegs in square holes. It's ridiculous to expect a player with one set of characteristics to perform the exact same role as someone with completely different ones.

Funnily enough, I've still got the same criticisms now as I did nearly 3 years ago. So far from being a soothsayer, I just opened me eyes early on and relised the emporer had no clothes on.

I can't remember having a crossed word with you on here so not sure why you're calling me out on a conversation I've got nothing to do with?

Regarding the "bullying" card, it's actually quite funny that you bring that up. There was a period of about 5 weeks where every single post I made was jumped on by 5 or 6 regular posters within 5 minutes of each other. They absolutely slaughteted everything said.

Regular posters on here would post back in befuddlement asking what the hell was going on. I had half a dozen Private Messages from regular posters saying it was absolutely ridiculous the treatment I was getting. It was clearly 5 or 6 who knew each other and decided between themselves that they were going to try and get together and "bully" me off the board.

Instead I just sat back and laughed at them. Why half a dozen grown men would want to team up and make a little online gang to rid the internet of people that disagree with them about a football manager is just beyond me, it's getting towards the absurd.

I let them get on with their silly game and they eventually got bored of it and realised I wasn't going anywhere. When the time was right I came back on here and reminded them. I wasn't "bullying" I was merely holding up a mirror to them.

Funnily enough, out of the half dozen, 4 have now seen the error of their ways and recognise Pellegrini has done a terrible job. Two seemingly don't post on Bluemoon anymore, certainly not on the Pellegrini thread.

So yeh, not a soothsayer mate, just saw some alarming patterns developing in the manager from early on. The manager has not changed. My opinion hasn't changed. The only thing that's changed is that over time, the manager's deficiencies have been highlighted over a longer period, so it makes it easier for people to make an informed evaluation.

For the record I sung his name with gusto and applauded him off in Swansea yesterday. I wish him all the best.
 
I posted recently that I suspect he got away with it because the pace of the game in Spain is slower and the players aren't as strong/quick in general. I think he's been caught out loads of times by the pace/strength of a player he's coming up against.
It is his first season in England, you'd have hoped the penny might have dropped sooner with him in terms of the diving in but he may be a fair bit better next season if he learns from his experiences this season. I do think defenders can take a bit of time to adjust, the difference in pace of the game you mention must be a shock to the system for some of them. There's still a chance he will come good for us although it is difficult to ever see him and Mangala being a reliable partnership.
 
I would tend to agree with DB. Sure you can improve players and coach certain things out of them, but there's IMO too many inherent flaws in both Mangala's and Otamendi's game. Personally I think Ota will be the one who survives simply because he backs himself when he gets given the ball at his feet (not matter how naive that is at times). Mangala seems to shit himself whenever he's given the ball. That won't fly for Pep i reckon.

The real issue with both Otamendi and Mangala is their complete lack of composure on the ball. You are right in saying they have come from leagues with a much lessor tempo and physicality so have looked better and got away with most things but the PL is cruelly exposing the pair of them and after a full season, they look to be getting worse rather than better.

New back 4 is needed as i dont believe our full backs are good enough either.
 
It is his first season in England, you'd have hoped the penny might have dropped sooner with him in terms of the diving in but he may be a fair bit better next season if he learns from his experiences this season. I do think defenders can take a bit of time to adjust, the difference in pace of the game you mention must be a shock to the system for some of them. There's still a chance he will come good for us although it is difficult to ever see him and Mangala being a reliable partnership.

One of the big frustrations this season is that both Mangala and Ota look decent when next to Vinny. That suggests that maybe both of them have the potential to stay with us long term - just not as a pairing as you say because they bring out the worst in each other!
 
I would argue him diving in has cost us a lot more than it's saved us though. Looks great the 1 in 10 times it comes off. How can you coach something out of someone at this late stage of his career though?

If they are our primary centre backs next season then we are well and truly fucked.

our centre backs next season will be stones and laporte.
 

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