Swedish Elections

[Prestwich_Blue]

antisemitism is not caused by Corbyn, is not in the sole ownership of parts of the Labour Party nor is it new as I have just posted.

No it isn’t but him and his supporters who’ve come crawling out of the woodwork have brought it into the open and made it fashionable again.

 

[bluethrunthru]

No it isn’t but him and his supporters who’ve come crawling out of the woodwork have brought it into the open and made it fashionable again.

"fashionable" ? Do me a favour. What has he said to make it "fashionable" ? You could argue Johnsons "suicide vest " and "letterbox" comments have made Islamophobia in the Tory party fashionable in that case too.

 

[BobKowalski]

All of those things you mention, bar the depression, came about after Hitler became Chancellor. The question is how did a racist, minority party that had supposedly been “found out” get from 2.6% of the vote to 44% in just 5 years. The answer is political and economic turmoil in the face of weak and ineffectual government. While we’re not at the mercy of the economic turmoil that the Weimar Repiblic had to contend with, other parts of Europe have significant economic issues which have led to migration and high levels of youth unemployment.

Yes. Hitler was invited to be Chancellor with a view to controlling him. Then there was the fire, then the passing of emergency powers which suspended the constitution and concentrated power in his hands and the supression of the press and opposition followed.

If the far right is also invited into Govt in Sweden then I agree that is a slippery slope with a parallel to that time. Another parallel is the fracturing of politics with the rise of parties on the left as well as the right at the expense of the main parties. This is evident here in the UK except the fracturing is occuring within the main parties with Brexit being one of the biggest drivers of this.

I would say that the increase in support for the far right in countries like Sweden, Germany or Netherlands is more of a cultural battle than economic.

 

[oldtimerdiscopants]

If some people genuinely hand on heart believe that the Tories are far right then in my opinion their moral compass is off by some way.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

"fashionable" ? Do me a favour. What has he said to make it "fashionable" ? You could argue Johnsons "suicide vest " and "letterbox" comments have made Islamophobia in the Tory party fashionable in that case too.

Well for a start his comments recently about ‘British Zionists’. Despite his obfuscation everyone knows what he really meant. And then there’s been two years of his supporters pouring out antisemitic messages on social media and the attacks on Jewish MP’s and those who dare to stand up for them.

 

[newfaceinhell]

And back to Zionism again.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yes. Hitler was invited to be Chancellor with a view to controlling him. Then there was the fire, then the passing of emergency powers which suspended the constitution and concentrated power in his hands and the supression of the press and opposition followed.

If the far right is also invited into Govt in Sweden then I agree that is a slippery slope with a parallel to that time. Another parallel is the fracturing of politics with the rise of parties on the left as well as the right at the expense of the main parties. This is evident here in the UK except the fracturing is occuring within the main parties with Brexit being one of the biggest drivers of this.

I would say that the increase in support for the far right in countries like Sweden, Germany or Netherlands is more of a cultural battle than economic.

I absolutely agree that the fracturing of the usual political consensus is a key part of this. And I’d say you’re right in saying that the increase in support for the far right in the more economically stable Northern Europe is more cultural than economic. But is it purely a reaction to immigration and the failure of immigrants to assimilate quicker than people would like or is that factor an excuse for something that’s been there anyway but stayed latent, in the same way that antisemitism had until recently.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Well for a start his comments recently about ‘British Zionists’. Despite his obfuscation everyone knows what he really meant. And then there’s been two years of his supporters pouring out antisemitic messages on social media and the attacks on Jewish MP’s and those who dare to stand up for them.

everybody who wants to think they really know what he means rather than what he actually said is right then? Ok? Only Jewish MP's? I'd suggest there is vitriol on all sides when people do not agree.

 

[BobKowalski]

I absolutely agree that the fracturing of the usual political consensus is a key part of this. And I’d say you’re right in saying that the increase in support for the far right in the more economically stable Northern Europe is more cultural than economic. But is it purely a reaction to immigration and the failure of immigrants to assimilate quicker than people would like or is that factor an excuse for something that’s been there anyway but stayed latent, in the same way that antisemitism had until recently.

My gut feeling is that it’s always being there but stayed latent. The 900,000 refugees taken in by Germany have assimilated and found employment quicker than was anticipated but it’s their very presence that has stirred the racism not their actions. Anti-semitism is the same in my opinion. It has always existed on the left to a degree and a Labour leadership that is ‘seen to be ambivalent on the issue’ encourages it to be tolerated and even grow. Corbyn could, and should, have kneecapped it from the off but he didn’t and here we are.

 

[BobKowalski]

But previous terrorists like the IRA had a political aim that you could negotiate with them on. They had specific but limited aims. The new breed of Islamic fundamentalists have no such constraints. What do they want that we could conceivably deliver?

Personally I don’t think it helps to think in those terms. If you think that there is no appeal to reason, common ground or whatever then what’s left. Exterminate them?

Every group, organisation etc wants something - usually power. You can only fight for something. You can’t motivate people to fight, and to keep on fighting, for nothing.