Skashion said:As Marx said, it will spread all over the globe.Rascal said:If we dont our childrens futures are dead
The capatalists offer no future as growth is what they thrive on, but they cant grow us a new planet
All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned ... the need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the whole surface of the globe. It must nestle everywhere, settle everywhere, establish connections everywhere
If you follow capitalism to its logical conclusion that is where it's going, capitalism does lift living standards and wages through greater productivity but eventually they rise to the point where they need to move on to the next poor country. Eventually they run out of countries. I almost wrote my dissertation on this. I was going to call it "Outsourcing to Mars". I should have done it really but I was less confident I'd get a high mark, so I was boringly conventional and did a Marxist analysis of China and Brazil which was dull as fuck but got me a high upper second, and probably got me my first class degree.
This constant outsourcing eventually ends with a global labour force with workers' wages and living conditions very similar across the globe. Thus far the capitalist trick has been to maintain living standards in the west by providing cheap goods from elsewhere. That cannot continue indefinitely once capitalism has run out of countries to outsource to. So can it do it by technology alone, or will the global proletariat start to feel the squeeze then? That will be capitalism's last card to play. Can it raise living standards on technology alone? This is something that Marx did not really foresee, and could not realistically foresee, and it is something really lacking in Marxist theory on my opinion. Or will global government come first and reassert the power of the people via the state. Capitalism has thus far been able to use its intra and international power to play the nation-state off against one another. Getting countries to transfer the tax burden away from itself and implement favourable policies. Global revolution, global government or technology-powered capitalism in perpetuity... The three possible fates of mankind.
Rascal said:Skashion said:As Marx said, it will spread all over the globe.Rascal said:If we dont our childrens futures are dead
The capatalists offer no future as growth is what they thrive on, but they cant grow us a new planet
All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned ... the need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the whole surface of the globe. It must nestle everywhere, settle everywhere, establish connections everywhere
If you follow capitalism to its logical conclusion that is where it's going, capitalism does lift living standards and wages through greater productivity but eventually they rise to the point where they need to move on to the next poor country. Eventually they run out of countries. I almost wrote my dissertation on this. I was going to call it "Outsourcing to Mars". I should have done it really but I was less confident I'd get a high mark, so I was boringly conventional and did a Marxist analysis of China and Brazil which was dull as fuck but got me a high upper second, and probably got me my first class degree.
This constant outsourcing eventually ends with a global labour force with workers' wages and living conditions very similar across the globe. Thus far the capitalist trick has been to maintain living standards in the west by providing cheap goods from elsewhere. That cannot continue indefinitely once capitalism has run out of countries to outsource to. So can it do it by technology alone, or will the global proletariat start to feel the squeeze then? That will be capitalism's last card to play. Can it raise living standards on technology alone? This is something that Marx did not really foresee, and could not realistically foresee, and it is something really lacking in Marxist theory on my opinion. Or will global government come first and reassert the power of the people via the state. Capitalism has thus far been able to use its intra and international power to play the nation-state off against one another. Getting countries to transfer the tax burden away from itself and implement favourable policies. Global revolution, global government or technology-powered capitalism in perpetuity... The three possible fates of mankind.
Eloquent and thoughtful as ever my friend.
Of your three possible fates, technology-powered capitalism is the least likely because of the earths finite resources, so unless cheap and light speed space travel is achieved i believe its doomed to fail. Global government is unlikely because of the USA, global revolution is the most likely and hopefully it will be lead by socialists rather than facists
blueonblue said:Thankfully we can view socialism through the eyes of history, the Soviet states all fell with the people celebrating their freedom, and apart from a few die hards none have expressed a desire for the good old days of the secret police and detention camps.
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Rascal said:blueonblue said:Thankfully we can view socialism through the eyes of history, the Soviet states all fell with the people celebrating their freedom, and apart from a few die hards none have expressed a desire for the good old days of the secret police and detention camps.
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What has the soviet union got to do with socialism ?
Rascal said:blueonblue said:Thankfully we can view socialism through the eyes of history, the Soviet states all fell with the people celebrating their freedom, and apart from a few die hards none have expressed a desire for the good old days of the secret police and detention camps.
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What has the soviet union got to do with socialism ?
BluePurgatory said:Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill
BluePurgatory said:Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill