Thatcher dead

[Dirty Harry]

She didn't hate the poor or the working class as such but she had no time for those that had no interest in bettering themselves as she had done or those that wanted to rely on the state. As a grammar school girl who had to fight for everything I'd say she was determined that those who had aspirations could achieve them. Many working class people did very well out of her but it depended where you lived to a greater or lesser degree.

She also equally hated those who felt privilege could get them what they wanted for the same reason and that was mainly her motivation for the changes that opened up the financial world, which had been dominated by stuffy men who got their jobs because of who their father was and where they went to school.

This is spot on and a much more contextualised analysis than the gross over-simplification that she "hated the working classes".

She loved the working classes as long as they were "her" working classes. If they displayed all the qualities of self-improvement, thrift, social conservatism and hard work that she saw in her father (who she idolised) and herself, then I imagine they were the people she admired and respected the most. More than Royalty or her "friends in the City", even.

It goes back to what mackenzie posted last night about her complete absence of empathy. She could not relate to anyone who did not share her values. She could not appreciate that not everyone had her brains, her stable upbringing, or her (relative to them) comfortable living standards from which to better themselves. She assumed that families always provided the necessary support mechanism for people to self-improve. She probably assumed those with disabilities had adequate help from their loved ones. She possibly even assumed that redundant miners could use their redundancy money to start their own business.

She singularly failed to appreciate that not everyone can grab life by the horns and "make something of themselves". That can be for reasons of opportunity, luck, health, family circumstances and general predisposition, and the fact that she failed to appreciate that is why she is so reviled, and with some justification. It was her biggest downfall as a person and as a politician and why whilst she may have been a great leader of the Conservative party, she could never be described as a great Prime Minister.

You know what, for a 'Tory boy' you don't half talk sense at times, has some fucker nicked your computer/phone down there or something ?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You know what, for a 'Tory boy' you don't half talk sense at times, has some fucker nicked your computer/phone down there or something ?

Fuck me, it's been a while since someone ascribed the term 'Tory' to me on here, even within quotation marks. At least on this occasion it's someone whose opinion I respect.

As to someone being an imposter on my account, they may have access to my phone, and maybe even my password, but my mind is something they would struggle to emulate :-)

As to the journey down to London: three pints at the train station, followed by a dry train full of all manner of human life. Quite a fit posh bird to my right although she's wearing a little too much blusher. A chap with a baseball cap the wrong way round just behind me - "safe" - and a couple of blues a couple of seats down.They seem like a right pair of boring bastards tbh.

Also the Heineken is wearing off and I need a piss. My planning for this journey has been sub-standard it has to be said.

 

[Dirty Harry]

You know what, for a 'Tory boy' you don't half talk sense at times, has some fucker nicked your computer/phone down there or something ?

Fuck me, it's been a while since someone ascribed the term 'Tory' to me on here, even within quotation marks. At least on this occasion it's someone whose opinion I respect.

As to someone being an imposter on my account, they may have access to my phone, and maybe even my password, but my mind is something they would struggle to emulate :-)

As to the journey down to London: three pints at the train station, followed by a dry train full of all manner of human life. Quite a fit posh bird to my right although she's wearing a little too much blusher. A chap with a baseball cap the wrong way round just behind me - "safe" - and a couple of blues a couple of seats down.They seem like a right pair of boring bastards tbh.


Also the Heineken is wearing off and I need a piss. My planning for this journey has been sub-standard it has to be said.

Ditto pal ;-), one of the few who are capable of looking at all this in an objective and even-handed manner, as you've shown throughout the thread, even though your organizational skills are clearly piss-poor lmao.

 

[stonerblue]

Just a couple of points I'd like to make .
The alternatives to Thatcher were Michael Foot . . . imagine that tramp representing Great Britain .
Or Neil Kinnock . . . an absolute political buffoon .
People celebrating her death who weren't even born or of voting age when she stood for power . . . . Try working out your own views instead of your Dad's .
Glenda Jackson . What a jealous woman ? Just because she and her party couldn't get near her . MP for Hampstead and Kilburn . Hardly areas which were affected by pit closures and run down steelworks . Sad that she has to spout her vile taunts about a woman that constantly wiped the political floor with her . She should show more respect to an opponent that was always streets ahead of her .
I see Labour have another fantastic candidate in the ultra boring and policyless Milliband . . . Heaven help us .

Excellent Post!

what a surprise..

 

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

Just a couple of points I'd like to make .
The alternatives to Thatcher were Michael Foot . . . imagine that tramp representing Great Britain .
Or Neil Kinnock . . . an absolute political buffoon .
People celebrating her death who weren't even born or of voting age when she stood for power . . . . Try working out your own views instead of your Dad's .
Glenda Jackson . What a jealous woman ? Just because she and her party couldn't get near her . MP for Hampstead and Kilburn . Hardly areas which were affected by pit closures and run down steelworks . Sad that she has to spout her vile taunts about a woman that constantly wiped the political floor with her . She should show more respect to an opponent that was always streets ahead of her .
I see Labour have another fantastic candidate in the ultra boring and policyless Milliband . . . Heaven help us .

I Know that you were speaking generally, to a point, about the Labour Party. However, your particular focus on Glenda Jackson shows you to be somewhat misinformed; It appears that you may have mistaken GJ for a battle-axe MP still baring the scars of Lady Thatcher. However their political paths, in the parliamentary sense never crossed; as one assumed the role of MP the other departed.

Jealousy, really, I don't think so; If GJ was always involved in politics to the level that MT was then maybe, but she was n't. She was in fact a very successful actress, and won 2 Oscars for best actress, one of a select group of 12 Women, only Katherine Hepburn winning more than that group. I don't think she is one to be consumed by jealousy and bitterness, in that respect.

Glenda Jackson, simply said it as it is, or to put it another way; how she thinks it is, hardly different from any other politician, particularly Margaret Thatcher.

She was a pain in the backside for Blair and is very much a traditional left-winger, so it is hardly surprising that she is so vocal in her opposition towards the two ex PMs. If you had put forward that she resented Thatcher for the Blairite third way element that inevitably clashed with her more left wing and socialist views then I might have had more sympathy for that line of argument and agreed with you.

 

[blueonblue]

"Again, what are you looking at? we have an attitude in the nation that we should look after No1. Bankers did this, tax dodgers do this, benefit cheats do this.
She implemented this so well that we actually believe it is possible. Look at the company you are working for, do they preach teamwork and collaboration for the good of the company or do you all look out for yourselves?"


Well done little stan...............For exposing the core myth that the lefties always fall back on to a simple fact.


The attitude of look after no 1 and f*ck everyone else came not from the Tory party but the unions, they held the country to ransom time after time with no thought to the damage done to other workers jobs, the sick or the vulnerable,
They even picketed the cemetery gates to stop people burying their dead.

The previous labour government had pleaded in vain for the unions to show the solidarity they so often spout about, Calahan had reached a pay policy agreement with the T.U.C. but the big unions then just ignored it and finally brought the government down.

Without being there you simply can not understand the shear madness of it all, union A would get a pay rise......then union B wanted one to maintain "The differential" between trades......then other unions jumped in with the argument that their "Differential" had been eroded an so they had their hand out........then back to union A an start again.

Nor can people today grasp what tactics were employed by the unions under the secondary picket, if a union called a strike they would not only picket the company, but its suppliers and customers, workers with the slightest connection to even those companies went to work of a morning not knowing if they were going to be turned away by a picket line (An not get paid), should you take the attitude that they were stretching the connection to the ridiculous and went in to work there was every chance of a car full of blokes coming through your front door to "Teach scabs a lesson".

These are cold hard facts from before Mrs T ever set foot in number 10, the big unions used their clout to get as much as possible without any care or consideration of the effects on other fellow workers or society.

 

[mackenzie]

She didn't hate the poor or the working class as such but she had no time for those that had no interest in bettering themselves as she had done or those that wanted to rely on the state. As a grammar school girl who had to fight for everything I'd say she was determined that those who had aspirations could achieve them. Many working class people did very well out of her but it depended where you lived to a greater or lesser degree.

She also equally hated those who felt privilege could get them what they wanted for the same reason and that was mainly her motivation for the changes that opened up the financial world, which had been dominated by stuffy men who got their jobs because of who their father was and where they went to school.

This is spot on and a much more contextualised analysis than the gross over-simplification that she "hated the working classes".

She loved the working classes as long as they were "her" working classes. If they displayed all the qualities of self-improvement, thrift, social conservatism and hard work that she saw in her father (who she idolised) and herself, then I imagine they were the people she admired and respected the most. More than Royalty or her "friends in the City", even.

It goes back to what mackenzie posted last night about her complete absence of empathy. She could not relate to anyone who did not share her values. She could not appreciate that not everyone had her brains, her stable upbringing, or her (relative to them) comfortable living standards from which to better themselves. She assumed that families always provided the necessary support mechanism for people to self-improve. She probably assumed those with disabilities had adequate help from their loved ones. She possibly even assumed that redundant miners could use their redundancy money to start their own business.

She singularly failed to appreciate that not everyone can grab life by the horns and "make something of themselves". That can be for reasons of opportunity, luck, health, family circumstances and general predisposition, and the fact that she failed to appreciate that is why she is so reviled, and with some justification. It was her biggest downfall as a person and as a politician and why whilst she may have been a great leader of the Conservative party, she could never be described as a great Prime Minister.[/quo

Great post GDM

 

[The perfect fumble]

She singularly failed to appreciate that not everyone can grab life by the horns and "make something of themselves".

And she had a very narrow analysis of what that "something" should be.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Do you truly believe that "Ding Dong" record only made it to number 2 or are the BBC lying to the public yet again ?

 

[dom]

She didn't hate the poor or the working class as such but she had no time for those that had no interest in bettering themselves as she had done or those that wanted to rely on the state. As a grammar school girl who had to fight for everything I'd say she was determined that those who had aspirations could achieve them. Many working class people did very well out of her but it depended where you lived to a greater or lesser degree.

She also equally hated those who felt privilege could get them what they wanted for the same reason and that was mainly her motivation for the changes that opened up the financial world, which had been dominated by stuffy men who got their jobs because of who their father was and where they went to school.

This is spot on and a much more contextualised analysis than the gross over-simplification that she "hated the working classes".

She loved the working classes as long as they were "her" working classes. If they displayed all the qualities of self-improvement, thrift, social conservatism and hard work that she saw in her father (who she idolised) and herself, then I imagine they were the people she admired and respected the most. More than Royalty or her "friends in the City", even.

It goes back to what mackenzie posted last night about her complete absence of empathy. She could not relate to anyone who did not share her values. She could not appreciate that not everyone had her brains, her stable upbringing, or her (relative to them) comfortable living standards from which to better themselves. She assumed that families always provided the necessary support mechanism for people to self-improve. She probably assumed those with disabilities had adequate help from their loved ones. She possibly even assumed that redundant miners could use their redundancy money to start their own business.

She singularly failed to appreciate that not everyone can grab life by the horns and "make something of themselves". That can be for reasons of opportunity, luck, health, family circumstances and general predisposition, and the fact that she failed to appreciate that is why she is so reviled, and with some justification. It was her biggest downfall as a person and as a politician and why whilst she may have been a great leader of the Conservative party, she could never be described as a great Prime Minister.[/quo

Great post GDM

Excellent and well balanced post M8,


though as someone brought up between S Wales and Yorkshire and saw the devastation she wrought on those communities and then walked away from to sketch out the regressive and blatently UNFAIR Poll Tax.. forgive me if at times the words 'balance' and 'Thatcher' do seem to cause a fair bit of emotion


Jelly and Ice Cream time
A plate of Welsh cakes, washed down with a bottle of Newcastle Brown

Fook her
we will survive