Thatcher dead

kept out of this since the death was anounced but know chirping in, wtf 10 million pounds the cremate the fucker at our expense when food banks are rife in every town in the country then that snobby daughter makes that rehearsed speach on itv, makes me puke , sorry this is all thats wrong in this country
 
Hamann Pineapple said:
Do you truly believe that "Ding Dong" record only made it to number 2 or are the BBC lying to the public yet again ?

Commercial radio presenters were urging listeners to download other songs. No mention of the protest song.
 
marco said:
kept out of this since the death was anounced but know chirping in, wtf 10 million pounds the cremate the fucker at our expense when food banks are rife in every town in the country then that snobby daughter makes that rehearsed speach on itv, makes me puke , sorry this is all thats wrong in this country


missed the speach, what she say
 
540115_356084587845827_1316561189_n.jpg
 
pirate said:
marco said:
kept out of this since the death was anounced but know chirping in, wtf 10 million pounds the cremate the fucker at our expense when food banks are rife in every town in the country then that snobby daughter makes that rehearsed speach on itv, makes me puke , sorry this is all thats wrong in this country


missed the speach, what she say

She didn't call anyone a coon or gollywog. So that's a start.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
She didn't hate the poor or the working class as such but she had no time for those that had no interest in bettering themselves as she had done or those that wanted to rely on the state. As a grammar school girl who had to fight for everything I'd say she was determined that those who had aspirations could achieve them. Many working class people did very well out of her but it depended where you lived to a greater or lesser degree.

She also equally hated those who felt privilege could get them what they wanted for the same reason and that was mainly her motivation for the changes that opened up the financial world, which had been dominated by stuffy men who got their jobs because of who their father was and where they went to school.

This is spot on and a much more contextualised analysis than the gross over-simplification that she "hated the working classes".

She loved the working classes as long as they were "her" working classes. If they displayed all the qualities of self-improvement, thrift, social conservatism and hard work that she saw in her father (who she idolised) and herself, then I imagine they were the people she admired and respected the most. More than Royalty or her "friends in the City", even.

It goes back to what mackenzie posted last night about her complete absence of empathy. She could not relate to anyone who did not share her values. She could not appreciate that not everyone had her brains, her stable upbringing, or her (relative to them) comfortable living standards from which to better themselves. She assumed that families always provided the necessary support mechanism for people to self-improve. She probably assumed those with disabilities had adequate help from their loved ones. She possibly even assumed that redundant miners could use their redundancy money to start their own business.

She singularly failed to appreciate that not everyone can grab life by the horns and "make something of themselves". That can be for reasons of opportunity, luck, health, family circumstances and general predisposition, and the fact that she failed to appreciate that is why she is so reviled, and with some justification. It was her biggest downfall as a person and as a politician and why whilst she may have been a great leader of the Conservative party, she could never be described as a great Prime Minister.

Interesting post and this line really stuck out to me. I think the question that Western societies have to address, if we don't want to be stuck in stagnation and possibly even decline for the next several decades, is how we can best get people to do that.

Having studied a lot of philosophy, it's a point I've often wondered about. Humans are not self-made, we are created by external influences and so we cannot really be held at fault for our attributes or characteristics. No one chooses WHO they are, so while it's easy to say that so and so is lazy, stupid, unmotivated, etc, etc, we should consider that they did not choose to embody those traits. But at the same time, it would be a fatal mistake for society to reward courses of action that stem from those motivations.

I think the right course of action would be for societies to focus more on providing for the physical and mental health of their people, which I think has been missing. SO many people besides just those who are lazy, unmotivated, and don't want to provide for themselves, have mental issues that hold them back in life. We go to doctors periodically for checkups on the health of our body, but most of us don't do this for the health of our mind. We keep mental problems and baggage contained within us, and so I think that if society made a stronger attempt to ensure the mental health of it's people we would see a far more productive economy, along with other benefits like fewer suicides, happier people, lower divorce rates and therefore better upbringings for our children, and all the other benefits of good mental health.

I don't think a welfare state is the answer though, I think it goes against human nature. People forget that humans evolved to survive, and almost all of us have it within us to do great things for the sake of our survival. I don't necessarily believe in 'pulling yourself up by the bootstraps' as I think it's better if people get help to pull themselves up, but the current welfare state is akin to allowing people to not get up at all.
 
Hamann Pineapple said:
Do you truly believe that "Ding Dong" record only made it to number 2 or are the BBC lying to the public yet again ?
Pretty sure it's not possible to fudge the figures on the charts. If they could I doubt they would lied and put it in at number 2
 
TheMightyQuinn said:
Even as a Thatcher sceptic, I found this tribute to be both moving and quite emotional.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8I2-A459SY[/youtube]
One of the greatest things I think I've ever seen.
 
stonerblue said:
BluePurgatory said:
Andy Dale said:
Just a couple of points I'd like to make .
The alternatives to Thatcher were Michael Foot . . . imagine that tramp representing Great Britain .
Or Neil Kinnock . . . an absolute political buffoon .
People celebrating her death who weren't even born or of voting age when she stood for power . . . . Try working out your own views instead of your Dad's .
Glenda Jackson . What a jealous woman ? Just because she and her party couldn't get near her . MP for Hampstead and Kilburn . Hardly areas which were affected by pit closures and run down steelworks . Sad that she has to spout her vile taunts about a woman that constantly wiped the political floor with her . She should show more respect to an opponent that was always streets ahead of her .
I see Labour have another fantastic candidate in the ultra boring and policyless Milliband . . . Heaven help us .

Excellent Post!

what a surprise..

Ha-ha, not as surprised as I was that you bumped that excellent post! :o)
 

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