BillyShears said:mackenzie said:That, in the time between, Jose/whoever confirmed he was definitely not interested?
I've no idea to be honest Sharon. It just felt strange at the time, considering it was the beginning of the run in which ended last night. To my mind it made sense, at the very least, to 'brief' a couple of journalists that Mancini was definitely staying and was the authority in the dressing room.
Going back to what we've been discussing in this thread, whatever was going on, it was handled really fucking badly. Carlos gave that awful interview in the Mail, then proceeded to put in a strangely subdued performance in the derby. Both internally and externally we need to handle situations like that better if we really want to be a top top club.
Braggster said:Some very interesting posts on this thread.
One point I would like to make is this. We fans, and the media, tend to think of managers in a hierarchy. Mourinho is better than Ancelotti, who is better than Scolari, etc.
That's perfectly normal. Whether one agrees or not with any particular order - and there'll always be debate, of course - it's broadly correct. But it fails to take into account that management is a broad church. The requirements of a team fighting relegation are very different from an established CL club, and similarly the skills of some managers are very different to others. Some managers are good at getting results quickly, others are long term builders, some are better with big budgets, others are good at working on a shoestring or bringing through academy players.
So it's not just a question of who is the 'best' manager in absolute terms, but who is the best for City now - what manager has the right skill set to deal with our problems.
For what it's worth, I see our problems as the following:
1) Massive weight of expectation internally and externally, coupled with years of failure and relentless media focus
2) Presence of the rags next door means we're always compared to them and trying to rush things
3) Money - we have loads of it, managing it is very challenging. Used correctly money is a motivating force; used incorrectly it is highly destructive to the team and the club
4) Speed of progress, trying to make a 5-year leap in 2 years, is very divisive
5) An overpaid squad with big egos
6) Problematic internal politics.
We need a manager who is capable of dealing with those problems. Thanks to Calciopoli t's very hard to assess Mancio's time at Inter fairly, but certainly 1, 2 (to a lesser degree), 3, 5 and 6 were all issues he faced. To me his most impressive feat was to get a fractious, overpaid, ego ridden dressing room pulling in the right direction. That suggests that, while we might not have the absolute best manager in world football, we do have one who is well equipped to deal with the issues we face.
I think the hierarchy - Khaldoon, certainly, at any rate - recognise that. He might not be here forever, but he's got the skills to take us forward for the next 2 years at least. That's more than good enough.
mackenzie said:BillyShears said:I've no idea to be honest Sharon. It just felt strange at the time, considering it was the beginning of the run in which ended last night. To my mind it made sense, at the very least, to 'brief' a couple of journalists that Mancini was definitely staying and was the authority in the dressing room.
Going back to what we've been discussing in this thread, whatever was going on, it was handled really fucking badly. Carlos gave that awful interview in the Mail, then proceeded to put in a strangely subdued performance in the derby. Both internally and externally we need to handle situations like that better if we really want to be a top top club.
Well, as you say, we can only surmise.
However, it has been handled badly from a fans/outsiders point of view and unless that was through sheer incompetence (which on the average of things I very much doubt) the only logical conclusion is that there was confusion within the club below a certain level,that to led to creaks of frustration and whispermongering.
The only way that could have happened if incompetence did not play a part is that matters were undecided.
Braggster said:Some very interesting posts on this thread.
One point I would like to make is this. We fans, and the media, tend to think of managers in a hierarchy. Mourinho is better than Ancelotti, who is better than Scolari, etc.
That's perfectly normal. Whether one agrees or not with any particular order - and there'll always be debate, of course - it's broadly correct. But it fails to take into account that management is a broad church. The requirements of a team fighting relegation are very different from an established CL club, and similarly the skills of some managers are very different to others. Some managers are good at getting results quickly, others are long term builders, some are better with big budgets, others are good at working on a shoestring or bringing through academy players.
So it's not just a question of who is the 'best' manager in absolute terms, but who is the best for City now - what manager has the right skill set to deal with our problems.
For what it's worth, I see our problems as the following:
1) Massive weight of expectation internally and externally, coupled with years of failure and relentless media focus
2) Presence of the rags next door means we're always compared to them and trying to rush things
3) Money - we have loads of it, managing it is very challenging. Used correctly money is a motivating force; used incorrectly it is highly destructive to the team and the club
4) Speed of progress, trying to make a 5-year leap in 2 years, is very divisive
5) An overpaid squad with big egos
6) Problematic internal politics.
We need a manager who is capable of dealing with those problems. Thanks to Calciopoli t's very hard to assess Mancio's time at Inter fairly, but certainly 1, 2 (to a lesser degree), 3, 5 and 6 were all issues he faced. To me his most impressive feat was to get a fractious, overpaid, ego ridden dressing room pulling in the right direction. That suggests that, while we might not have the absolute best manager in world football, we do have one who is well equipped to deal with the issues we face.
I think the hierarchy - Khaldoon, certainly, at any rate - recognise that. He might not be here forever, but he's got the skills to take us forward for the next 2 years at least. That's more than good enough.
charliebigspuds said:what is "cabal" when referred to on here?
Braggster said:Some very interesting posts on this thread.
One point I would like to make is this. We fans, and the media, tend to think of managers in a hierarchy. Mourinho is better than Ancelotti, who is better than Scolari, etc.
That's perfectly normal. Whether one agrees or not with any particular order - and there'll always be debate, of course - it's broadly correct. But it fails to take into account that management is a broad church. The requirements of a team fighting relegation are very different from an established CL club, and similarly the skills of some managers are very different to others. Some managers are good at getting results quickly, others are long term builders, some are better with big budgets, others are good at working on a shoestring or bringing through academy players.
So it's not just a question of who is the 'best' manager in absolute terms, but who is the best for City now - what manager has the right skill set to deal with our problems.
For what it's worth, I see our problems as the following:
1) Massive weight of expectation internally and externally, coupled with years of failure and relentless media focus
2) Presence of the rags next door means we're always compared to them and trying to rush things
3) Money - we have loads of it, managing it is very challenging. Used correctly money is a motivating force; used incorrectly it is highly destructive to the team and the club
4) Speed of progress, trying to make a 5-year leap in 2 years, is very divisive
5) An overpaid squad with big egos
6) Problematic internal politics.
We need a manager who is capable of dealing with those problems. Thanks to Calciopoli t's very hard to assess Mancio's time at Inter fairly, but certainly 1, 2 (to a lesser degree), 3, 5 and 6 were all issues he faced. To me his most impressive feat was to get a fractious, overpaid, ego ridden dressing room pulling in the right direction. That suggests that, while we might not have the absolute best manager in world football, we do have one who is well equipped to deal with the issues we face.
I think the hierarchy - Khaldoon, certainly, at any rate - recognise that. He might not be here forever, but he's got the skills to take us forward for the next 2 years at least. That's more than good enough.
mackenzie said:charliebigspuds said:what is "cabal" when referred to on here?
Bit like a secret club with a shared agenda.
Strangely enough I only came across it a few months ago when reading a history book. I think the letters of the word spell out the initial letter of the name of each minister involved (iirc). Originated hundreds of years ago, think it was during the Tudor or Stuart times.
howiedeblue said:That sounds like common sense to me......its time the board came out and killed the speculation surrounding Bobby Mancs job so he can either get on with rebuild for next season or clear his desk.
de niro said:howiedeblue said:That sounds like common sense to me......its time the board came out and killed the speculation surrounding Bobby Mancs job so he can either get on with rebuild for next season or clear his desk.
this should have all been said 2 months ago.