bizzbo
Well-Known Member
BillyShears said:
forget about it, honestly. you did mention kenyon but I wasn't reading the thread properly, as I've explained.
I haven't got a clue what my agenda is, honestly, any pointers would be much appreciated
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the aftermath
- Thread starter tolmie's hairdoo
- Start date
forget about it, honestly. you did mention kenyon but I wasn't reading the thread properly, as I've explained.
I haven't got a clue what my agenda is, honestly, any pointers would be much appreciated
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Anonymous
Guest
bizzbo said:forget about it, honestly. you did mention kenyon but I wasn't reading the thread properly, as I've explained.
I haven't got a clue what my agenda is, honestly, any pointers would be much appreciated
No worries mate. I just read your post, and I agree with 99% of it.
One thing though - I've realized in recent weeks that I've become probably a bit over-sensitive to certain things, which is a direct result of some of the OTT abuse and general half-truths which have been posted about me and a few others on the board. I won't use the 'C' word...;- ) - but you did in the first paragraph of your post. The problem with it, is that fundamentally the implication made is that there is a lack of integrity to the things we post. By constantly singling posters out, and criticizing them for simply passing on information that they think people 1) will find interesting and 2) want to read about, you give the more neanderthal or paranoid element of our support, a very big stick to beat us with. All any of us have said, which has to some extent filtered out of the club, is that there needs to be the clarity which Khaldoon provided with today's interview.
Braggster
Well-Known Member
Some very interesting posts on this thread.
One point I would like to make is this. We fans, and the media, tend to think of managers in a hierarchy. Mourinho is better than Ancelotti, who is better than Scolari, etc.
That's perfectly normal. Whether one agrees or not with any particular order - and there'll always be debate, of course - it's broadly correct. But it fails to take into account that management is a broad church. The requirements of a team fighting relegation are very different from an established CL club, and similarly the skills of some managers are very different to others. Some managers are good at getting results quickly, others are long term builders, some are better with big budgets, others are good at working on a shoestring or bringing through academy players.
So it's not just a question of who is the 'best' manager in absolute terms, but who is the best for City now - what manager has the right skill set to deal with our problems.
For what it's worth, I see our problems as the following:
1) Massive weight of expectation internally and externally, coupled with years of failure and relentless media focus
2) Presence of the rags next door means we're always compared to them and trying to rush things
3) Money - we have loads of it, managing it is very challenging. Used correctly money is a motivating force; used incorrectly it is highly destructive to the team and the club
4) Speed of progress, trying to make a 5-year leap in 2 years, is very divisive
5) An overpaid squad with big egos
6) Problematic internal politics.
We need a manager who is capable of dealing with those problems. Thanks to Calciopoli t's very hard to assess Mancio's time at Inter fairly, but certainly 1, 2 (to a lesser degree), 3, 5 and 6 were all issues he faced. To me his most impressive feat was to get a fractious, overpaid, ego ridden dressing room pulling in the right direction. That suggests that, while we might not have the absolute best manager in world football, we do have one who is well equipped to deal with the issues we face.
I think the hierarchy - Khaldoon, certainly, at any rate - recognise that. He might not be here forever, but he's got the skills to take us forward for the next 2 years at least. That's more than good enough.
One point I would like to make is this. We fans, and the media, tend to think of managers in a hierarchy. Mourinho is better than Ancelotti, who is better than Scolari, etc.
That's perfectly normal. Whether one agrees or not with any particular order - and there'll always be debate, of course - it's broadly correct. But it fails to take into account that management is a broad church. The requirements of a team fighting relegation are very different from an established CL club, and similarly the skills of some managers are very different to others. Some managers are good at getting results quickly, others are long term builders, some are better with big budgets, others are good at working on a shoestring or bringing through academy players.
So it's not just a question of who is the 'best' manager in absolute terms, but who is the best for City now - what manager has the right skill set to deal with our problems.
For what it's worth, I see our problems as the following:
1) Massive weight of expectation internally and externally, coupled with years of failure and relentless media focus
2) Presence of the rags next door means we're always compared to them and trying to rush things
3) Money - we have loads of it, managing it is very challenging. Used correctly money is a motivating force; used incorrectly it is highly destructive to the team and the club
4) Speed of progress, trying to make a 5-year leap in 2 years, is very divisive
5) An overpaid squad with big egos
6) Problematic internal politics.
We need a manager who is capable of dealing with those problems. Thanks to Calciopoli t's very hard to assess Mancio's time at Inter fairly, but certainly 1, 2 (to a lesser degree), 3, 5 and 6 were all issues he faced. To me his most impressive feat was to get a fractious, overpaid, ego ridden dressing room pulling in the right direction. That suggests that, while we might not have the absolute best manager in world football, we do have one who is well equipped to deal with the issues we face.
I think the hierarchy - Khaldoon, certainly, at any rate - recognise that. He might not be here forever, but he's got the skills to take us forward for the next 2 years at least. That's more than good enough.
jeffmr2
Well-Known Member
tolmie's hairdoo said:The powers-that-be came in to the dressing room shortly after final whistle.
EVERYONE was congratulated, and thanked for giving the fans and the owner a season of rich promise.
EVERYONE was told nothing will divert them from their path of making us the very best
EVERYONE was told they have a future at City if they want it, and promised exciting things ahead this summer and some things were well progressed.
Most notably, EVERYONE was told Mancini will still be the manager.
Some of the players found it refereshing, others not so. Whether this was down to the pain of defeat, or the assertion that Bobby was staying on, no clue.
Mancini told them to believe it will be us next time.
I would find it astonishing if there was any U-turn on this based on the definitive way they made things out so plainly.
Hope this is true but,not wishing to appear rude,whats the source of this? Dont want to waste time reading 14 pages based on speculation.
jeffmr2 said:tolmie's hairdoo said:The powers-that-be came in to the dressing room shortly after final whistle.
EVERYONE was congratulated, and thanked for giving the fans and the owner a season of rich promise.
EVERYONE was told nothing will divert them from their path of making us the very best
EVERYONE was told they have a future at City if they want it, and promised exciting things ahead this summer and some things were well progressed.
Most notably, EVERYONE was told Mancini will still be the manager.
Some of the players found it refereshing, others not so. Whether this was down to the pain of defeat, or the assertion that Bobby was staying on, no clue.
Mancini told them to believe it will be us next time.
I would find it astonishing if there was any U-turn on this based on the definitive way they made things out so plainly.
Hope this is true but,not wishing to appear rude,whats the source of this? Dont want to waste time reading 14 pages based on speculation.
Tut, tut Tolmie's is the source and the rest is not likely to be answered is it?!
Nascent Blues
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 20 Sep 2009
- Messages
- 5,353
A superb post in my opinion.Braggster said:Some very interesting posts on this thread.
One point I would like to make is this. We fans, and the media, tend to think of managers in a hierarchy. Mourinho is better than Ancelotti, who is better than Scolari, etc.
That's perfectly normal. Whether one agrees or not with any particular order - and there'll always be debate, of course - it's broadly correct. But it fails to take into account that management is a broad church. The requirements of a team fighting relegation are very different from an established CL club, and similarly the skills of some managers are very different to others. Some managers are good at getting results quickly, others are long term builders, some are better with big budgets, others are good at working on a shoestring or bringing through academy players.
So it's not just a question of who is the 'best' manager in absolute terms, but who is the best for City now - what manager has the right skill set to deal with our problems.
For what it's worth, I see our problems as the following:
1) Massive weight of expectation internally and externally, coupled with years of failure and relentless media focus
2) Presence of the rags next door means we're always compared to them and trying to rush things
3) Money - we have loads of it, managing it is very challenging. Used correctly money is a motivating force; used incorrectly it is highly destructive to the team and the club
4) Speed of progress, trying to make a 5-year leap in 2 years, is very divisive
5) An overpaid squad with big egos
6) Problematic internal politics.
We need a manager who is capable of dealing with those problems. Thanks to Calciopoli t's very hard to assess Mancio's time at Inter fairly, but certainly 1, 2 (to a lesser degree), 3, 5 and 6 were all issues he faced. To me his most impressive feat was to get a fractious, overpaid, ego ridden dressing room pulling in the right direction. That suggests that, while we might not have the absolute best manager in world football, we do have one who is well equipped to deal with the issues we face.
I think the hierarchy - Khaldoon, certainly, at any rate - recognise that. He might not be here forever, but he's got the skills to take us forward for the next 2 years at least. That's more than good enough.
One of the main reasons i want mancini to stay is i believe he will be here in years to come if he gets it right in the short term. I want to have an affinity with our manager; a relationship that is built over time.
This, to me, is the perfect time to get somebody like Mancini on board. I truly believe he will be able to sort out the playing side of things if given time and, more importantly, 100% backing from the club in relation to the football/playing staff decisions he feels he needs to make.
bizzbo
Well-Known Member
BillyShears said:bizzbo said:forget about it, honestly. you did mention kenyon but I wasn't reading the thread properly, as I've explained.
I haven't got a clue what my agenda is, honestly, any pointers would be much appreciated
No worries mate. I just read your post, and I agree with 99% of it.
One thing though - I've realized in recent weeks that I've become probably a bit over-sensitive to certain things, which is a direct result of some of the OTT abuse and general half-truths which have been posted about me and a few others on the board. I won't use the 'C' word...;- ) - but you did in the first paragraph of your post. The problem with it, is that fundamentally the implication made is that there is a lack of integrity to the things we post. By constantly singling posters out, and criticizing them for simply passing on information that they think people 1) will find interesting and 2) want to read about, you give the more neanderthal or paranoid element of our support, a very big stick to beat us with. All any of us have said, which has to some extent filtered out of the club, is that there needs to be the clarity which Khaldoon provided with today's interview.
Oh I'm a cnt alright, no worries, arrogant twt who really believes in 90% of everything I write, fiercely protective of what I think is right for the club, Extremely sceptical as to other people's versions of events that I can't verify for myself. What I am saying is that it drives me nuts, not being able to completely satisfy myself, but that's my problem. I have absolutely no reason to doubt anyone's integrity. There is a bit of ribbing on all sides and I am easily wound up when my intelligence is belittled (tub-thumper will do it every time, bless you Dave). It all built up a bit, along with the not really knowing. Today's been crazy for me anyway and with the relief of Mancini staying, I let off steam.
I'll say that again, I do not seriously doubt anyone's integrity here. The insults were naughty. I retract it all fully. till the next time ;)
At the danger of retreading old ground, having seen the interview, I'm in little doubt that if Mancini had failed a few weeks ago, finished way off the pace, that we'd probably be looking at a new manager in a month or so. I always kind of accepted that, so it always seemed to me that it was natural for city to sound out contingencies. I just disagreed passionately when people said it would be happening regardless, as it would have left me disagreeing completely with the ideas of those running the club. I always felt led to believe it was probationary, and that's not the same thing as a caretaker, far from it. If that turned out never to have been the case I'd have to agree that the press had been right the whole time, ffs. I'd be looking back at Hughes' leaving in a very different light, and I'd have to admit I was completely wrong to ever voice a doubt over him, or feel a touched relieved that he went.
Much worse than that, I would have had to feel that the club had deliberately mislead me.
As for the silence, they've been forced into silence by the furore over the Hughes sacking. Some of the more outrageous stuff was aimed directly at them, calling them liars and cowards, and as their reputations and honour are important to them far beyond the world of football, they had to go into lock-down. Cook was told to become invisible, because the press would jump on anything he said. That's why it sticks in my throat when people on here do the same thing. It is for exactly that reason that we haven't heard anything, from anyone, until the final verdict was delivered...
any theories as to why they chose today? I mean, I did predict this would happen, exactly a week ago, but..... ;)
p.s., great stuff as usual, Braggster. Horses for courses. I also think Mancini will be good for us politically, the other managers seem to respect him, even if the press don't. Mourinho in 3 years time? When Mancini has won his first title and wants to return to Italy, and Mou has calmed down a bit with the dramatics? Why not. If only to stop him going to the rags ;)
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Anonymous
Guest
bizzbo said:any theories as to why they chose today? I mean, I did predict this would happen, exactly a week ago, but..... ;)
Well, Khaldoon and Cook finally spoke to some of the players at the very beginning of this week, and explained that Mancini was staying.
It's one thing to have a press silence, and not need to reaffirm Mancini's authority publicly for fear of it being spun as a "vote of confidence". However from what I gather, in the week leading up to the derby at COMS, some players asked about his long term future, not necessarily because they were disgruntled, but because they just wanted to know. No answer was forthcoming.
Reading between the lines, there was no benefit to not answer the question at that point. Make of that what you will.
BillyShears said:.
Reading between the lines, there was no benefit to not answer the question at that point. Make of that what you will.
That, in the time between, Jose/whoever confirmed he was definitely not interested?
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Anonymous
Guest
mackenzie said:BillyShears said:.
Reading between the lines, there was no benefit to not answer the question at that point. Make of that what you will.
That, in the time between, Jose/whoever confirmed he was definitely not interested?
I've no idea to be honest Sharon. It just felt strange at the time, considering it was the beginning of the run in which ended last night. To my mind it made sense, at the very least, to 'brief' a couple of journalists that Mancini was definitely staying and was the authority in the dressing room.
Going back to what we've been discussing in this thread, whatever was going on, it was handled really fucking badly. Carlos gave that awful interview in the Mail, then proceeded to put in a strangely subdued performance in the derby. Both internally and externally we need to handle situations like that better if we really want to be a top top club.