The Agenda (Merged)

[George Hannah]

Lipton slandering us on the Sunday Supplement this morning, everyday stuff really

Anything in particular or just the usual yawn fest?

abbreviated just for you

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byNLuoOHsNk&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[franksinatra]

If you think the Sun would have written such a sneering article about united in similar circumstances then you are deluded.

The overall lack of scrutiny about their appalling return on investment in the squad is an example of the relatively diffident way they are reported on. If we had spent that sum in the summer and were currently double digit points off the title pace, do you honesty believe it would be covered in such benevolent terms?

When I see a series of articles unequivocally pointing out how much better we operate as a club than them on numerous levels, then I will start to believe we are starting to get a degree of fair coverage from the press. All I've had to listen to for most of my adult life is a constant background noise of how much better united are at running their football business than us: 'the other Manchester club'. Now the opposite is true, the near silence is almost deafening.

Are any of these spineless fuckers going to state the obvious anytime soon? It's probably more than their job's worth, which is the point, really.

You stated a similar thing about my delusion when you highlighted an article about Jack Rodwell and stated a similar cutting article would not be written about a United player. That was disproven with the Wilfred Zaha article a point you conceded at the start of this thread. Sadly there is no direct comparison to United re; the stadium so the point is completely subjective and proves nothing.

As for how City and United are run ,only recently a national paper printed an article titled 'Manchester City have a better academy than United' highlighting how we have over taken United in attracting young talent and the BBC ran an article praising the new facilities and highlighting how we have more training pitches than the FA National Centre, Barcelona's famed academy and Real Madrids. The information is out there, written in some cases by those who some allege are involved in the agenda.

The post suggest an obsession with being compared to United. It is irrelevant. if you look through the prism of United would have got more coverage, United would not have been criticised like that you will always find fault

You're being disingenuous about what I conceded re: Zaha. I accepted there were some limited comments in the press about his misfortune at united, which made me resile slightly from my original position, but my primary point remained: the reporting of his time prior, during and following his spell at united has, in broad terms, been reported upon along wholly dissimilar lines to Rodwell's experience at City. That narrative remains whenever talk surfaces about Barkley coming to City. When do we ever hear journalists or pundits counseling against players joining united, despite numerous examples of players doing so and their first team opportunities being limited? Fuck me, Januzai has gone from being a de facto Englishman and the greatest young talent in the world, to being a forgotten man in a little over a year. If the same playing experience, restricted by expensive signings, had been replicated in reverse at City, the player would have gone from being relatively ignored in the media to being held up as evidence of a system which is stifling young talent. The fact you seem unable to recognise this is baffling to say the least, as you clearly are not an unintelligent person.

I agree about the comparison on the new stadium being an academic one, but one that I still maintain nonetheless, based, as it is, in the evidence before my eyes.

As to my post pointing to an obsession with being compared to united, I would take some issue with the word 'obsession' as in spite of appearance to the contrary, in terms of the time I spend on here, I lead a hugely interesting and fulfilling life, which means I have more than enough going on to allow such a thing to impose on it to an unhealthy extent, but I accept that united is the barometer against which our coverage is best measured. How could it be any other way? We've had that comparative forced upon us as City fans for the last few decades; it seems curious to say the least that now we've arrived at a point where we excel in those areas that were previously highlighted by the media when comparing the two clubs. In that regard the press, in the main, seem to be collectively 'taking the fifth'.

The disrespectful motherfuckers.

Thanks for your response and can I firstly state my reference to an obsession with United only relates to the context of the football debate on blue moon I would not make any assumptions about anyones lives.

For arguments sake lets agree City and United are treated differently by the media with regards youth players and possible signings of young players.

I am similarly amazed you cannot see the possible reasons City/United maybe treated differently in the media in relation to this subject.

Sadly it is an uncomfortable truth that since we have become successful the opportunities for young players have become extremely limited. Over the past five years not one player from the academy has established himself in the squad let alone the first team. Thankfully it appears our owners are addressing this issue but in the interim we will have to concede this point until City start proving the press pack wrong by producing or giving ample opportunities to young players. In addition to this we have to be honest and say the signings of Rodwell, Sinclair have not been successful to either parties.

Sadly the reason United could be treated differently is two-fold. Firstly although you have highlighted the Belgium wonderkid the fact remains as an 19 year old he has already made 37 appearances and although his fortunes have dipped this year McNair, Blackett, Wilson have made 30 appearances between them aged 20,20,19. If you added the appearances of Welbeck and Cleverley you would have around 200 appearances since 2011 by players in their teenage years or early twenties with 5 out of 6 produced at the academy. These players are the same age as Denayer, Rekik, Lopes who find themselves out on loan rather than part of the City squad.

Secondly whether we like it or not Players from the United academy have underpinned the England team for years and as the press write these articles through the prism of producing players for England it would be churlish to criticise United (at this point in time) when so many players have been produced over the past 15 years and even now Welbeck is a regular and Cleverley has been capped.

On a personal level It does not overly bother me, im more than happy the way we go about our business but for the media whos readership, clubs aside, share an interest in the national side we will be scrutinised.

Personally I am confident this narrative will change over the next ten years thanks to the new facilities and Citys commitment to developing young players which exceeds pretty much any other club.

 

[jaiguruKun]

Lipton slandering us on the Sunday Supplement this morning, everyday stuff really

Anything in particular or just the usual yawn fest?

abbreviated just for you

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byNLuoOHsNk&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Confirmation of the agenda three seconds in.

 

[EricBrooksGhost]

Lipton slandering us on the Sunday Supplement this morning, everyday stuff really

Anything in particular or just the usual yawn fest?

abbreviated just for you

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byNLuoOHsNk&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Stopped when he said the building work came into the calculations; technically they do in the sense they are excluded but that wasn't his point. This is the guy who had a go at Sergio when he signed.

 

[Newman Noggs]

Sadly it is an uncomfortable truth that since we have become successful the opportunities for young players have become extremely limited. Over the past five years not one player from the academy has established himself in the squad let alone the first team. Thankfully it appears our owners are addressing this issue but in the interim we will have to concede this point until City start proving the press pack wrong by producing or giving ample opportunities to young players. In addition to this we have to be honest and say the signings of Rodwell, Sinclair have not been successful to either parties.

Sadly the reason United could be treated differently is two-fold. Firstly although you have highlighted the Belgium wonderkid the fact remains as an 19 year old he has already made 37 appearances and although his fortunes have dipped this year McNair, Blackett, Wilson have made 30 appearances between them aged 20,20,19. If you added the appearances of Welbeck and Cleverley you would have around 200 appearances since 2011 by players in their teenage years or early twenties with 5 out of 6 produced at the academy. These players are the same age as Denayer, Rekik, Lopes who find themselves out on loan rather than part of the City squad.

Secondly whether we like it or not Players from the United academy have underpinned the England team for years and as the press write these articles through the prism of producing players for England it would be churlish to criticise United (at this point in time) when so many players have been produced over the past 15 years and even now Welbeck is a regular and Cleverley has been capped.

Good to see a civilised exchange of opposing opinions. As regards the above, the football climate for us is far different to the climate when the rags blood youngsters. Firstly, the economic rewards for success and FFP make failure not an option for us so we cannot afford to gamble on youth. That is something the rags have never had to contend with a) because they've always been richer than everyone else and b) because, until recently, they have been competing in a two or three team league with no prospect of ever not being in the Champions League.

You mention their current crop of youngsters but the point is that they sank to 7th by playing them which cost them around 50m. We cannot gamble like that because of FFP. We'll see next year whether the likes of McNair and Co feature in their future. Looking at the contract situation of some of them, I suspect they may not even be at the club.

You also mention Welbeck and Cleverley but it's no coincidence that neither are still at OT. In my opinion, Cleverly played for England only beacuse he played for United. He is being found out at Villa for the mid-table journeyman he is.

Even looking at the "class of 92", one cohort 22 years ago, which gave birth to the myth of the rags youth policy, the Nevilles and Butt were good standard Premier League players but I suspect they would not have been as successful at any other club simply because they could not have been supplemented by record buys.

On a positive note, SSN is faeturing the CFA live for the opening game at the new stadium.

 

[franksinatra]

Sadly it is an uncomfortable truth that since we have become successful the opportunities for young players have become extremely limited. Over the past five years not one player from the academy has established himself in the squad let alone the first team. Thankfully it appears our owners are addressing this issue but in the interim we will have to concede this point until City start proving the press pack wrong by producing or giving ample opportunities to young players. In addition to this we have to be honest and say the signings of Rodwell, Sinclair have not been successful to either parties.

Sadly the reason United could be treated differently is two-fold. Firstly although you have highlighted the Belgium wonderkid the fact remains as an 19 year old he has already made 37 appearances and although his fortunes have dipped this year McNair, Blackett, Wilson have made 30 appearances between them aged 20,20,19. If you added the appearances of Welbeck and Cleverley you would have around 200 appearances since 2011 by players in their teenage years or early twenties with 5 out of 6 produced at the academy. These players are the same age as Denayer, Rekik, Lopes who find themselves out on loan rather than part of the City squad.

Secondly whether we like it or not Players from the United academy have underpinned the England team for years and as the press write these articles through the prism of producing players for England it would be churlish to criticise United (at this point in time) when so many players have been produced over the past 15 years and even now Welbeck is a regular and Cleverley has been capped.

Good to see a civilised exchange of opposing opinions. As regards the above, the football climate for us is far different to the climate when the rags blood youngsters. Firstly, the economic rewards for success and FFP make failure not an option for us so we cannot afford to gamble on youth. That is something the rags have never had to contend with a) because they've always been richer than everyone else and b) because, until recently, they have been competing in a two or three team league with no prospect of ever not being in the Champions League.

You mention their current crop of youngsters but the point is that they sank to 7th by playing them which cost them around 50m. We cannot gamble like that because of FFP. We'll see next year whether the likes of McNair and Co feature in their future. Looking at the contract situation of some of them, I suspect they may not even be at the club.

You also mention Welbeck and Cleverley but it's no coincidence that neither are still at OT. In my opinion, Cleverly played for England only beacuse he played for United. He is being found out at Villa for the mid-table journeyman he is.

Even looking at the "class of 92", one cohort 22 years ago, which gave birth to the myth of the rags youth policy, the Nevilles and Butt were good standard Premier League players but I suspect they would not have been as successful at any other club simply because they could not have been supplemented by record buys.

On a positive note, SSN is faeturing the CFA live for the opening game at the new stadium.

Thank you for the well-thought out constructed post also.

Within it you make a number of valid points. With regards to Cleverley I completely agree he is no where near good enough but in some ways that validates my point because he has still made 54 appearance, therefore 54 opportunities to prove his worth.

Similarly you mention other United players who were only successful by be supplemented by others. I completely agree with this and you can add Brown, Evans, O Shea to this list. Therefore it begs the question, following a similar trail of thought why City academy players cannot be utilised in a similar way?

The pressures I agree are different due to FFP but also I would say United have to service a sizeable debt and as its a Glazer cash cow I cannot imagine much leniency being given, particularly if the sacking of Moyes is an example.

One thing I hope the restrictions of FFP may result in is clubs paying more attention to academies and the development of young players. Southampton seem to have grasped this nettle and if City similarly produce players it could put a benchmark down to other clubs.

I still get a lot of satisfaction out of watching the likes of Sturridge, Mee, Trippier, Schmeichel perform in the premiership just like previously I enjoyed watching Hinchcliffe play for England after he left City.

 

[manimanc]

The press and media would rather kick our arse.
The press and media would rather kiss utds arse.
It's as simple as that.

 

[Zubrman]

Anything in particular or just the usual yawn fest?

abbreviated just for you

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byNLuoOHsNk&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Confirmation of the agenda three seconds in.

Very good!!!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

On Garry Richardson's Sportsweek on 5Live, FA Director Heather Rabbatts was a guest and talking about her pet subject, diversity in football management. She claimed that there are too few black managers and (I quote) "...no black managers in charge of academies."

So yet again, the one club doing something positive in football gets overlooked.

 

[NMB]

In the not too distant future, the turkeys who voted for Christmas will be kicking themselves, journos will sick to death of the fact that teams who play in blue dominate English football and FFP will be reassessed. At that time people will look at our stance, the way we used every trick in the book to get around the inequity of the rules and we will universally be revered as the guardians of the lesser clubs who want to take the opportunities offered to them. Written apologies will be received and Ogden etc will regret everything they ever wrote and beg forgiveness.....



Or maybe not. But that's why I love it when our people come up with imaginative ways to avoid the basic purpose of FFP which was to keep the status quo for the G14 after Chelsea's emergence frightened the life out of them and shook them out of their complacency. Even "taking a pinch" was a good tactic in the short term.

Forza Al Mubarak. Forza Soriano.