Onholiday(somemightsay)
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12/1 is pretty skinny for picki the round high roller........ ;-)
The Boxing thread
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100%. Seen Teddy Atlas, say something similar, at best you could give BJS 1 or at most two rounds. Canelo was in control and just wearing him down for the inevitable.
Manchester1894
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BJS got a big of karma for non-boxing stuff and I'm a fan of his ability too.
Canelo is too fucking tough. His neck doesn't move. His power shots are all really hard. The inactivity meant he was a bit rusty but look at his face afterward. Hardly a scratch.
The gap between bouts makes me nervous that Canelo is using something to maintain the growth spurt he had - still think he's juicing on a very high level. The power he has in boxing cicles makes me nervous no-one gets a points win even if obvious.
Canelo is too fucking tough. His neck doesn't move. His power shots are all really hard. The inactivity meant he was a bit rusty but look at his face afterward. Hardly a scratch.
The gap between bouts makes me nervous that Canelo is using something to maintain the growth spurt he had - still think he's juicing on a very high level. The power he has in boxing cicles makes me nervous no-one gets a points win even if obvious.
Yep.
100%. The way Canelo keeps his power is very suspicious. His power allied to a stamina that doesn't drop is weird.
Added to that he is hitting harder at middleweight and is more elusive then he was at light middleweight. Basically gone up in weight and become, faster, stronger with more endurance and punch resistance.
Manchester1894
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Did you see the dressing rooms pre-fight? BJS doing usual pads/shadow boxing/footwork Canelo, stood there just doing power shots on a thicker pad. Rare to see boxers in general do that.
He does have great talent though - but I think his physical advantage might be obtained in a dirty manner. That positive test he had was for a susbtance farmers use in been to increase mass.
anybody found guilty of a positive test for a dodgy susbtance in sport should be given life bans
boxing is a sport that should be all over this with life bans. your putting lives at risk because you are using your hands as weapons and could kill somebody
Metalartin
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This is what BJS got caught with and used an excuse of "nasal spray" for a substance which is not widely used in the UK or the USA to begin with. Similar to steroid cheat Fury and his "boar meat" bullshit excuse, IMO they both got caught and sought out legal advice on what to say. This is different to the situation in Mexico, where Clen is widely used in the cattle industry, so much so that the organisers have now raised the tolerance levels for Mexican fighters because of the increasing number of cases. So yes, eating the meat has triggered numerous positive results because even trace amounts show up(which is what Canelo had). Anyway this is what was in BJS' system, who thought it right to throw stones from glass houses:
www.elitefitness.com
Unlike the above, many of the listed performance enhancing effects for Clenbuterol listed by armchair experts on boxing forums are not attainable at low doses. It helps you shed fat while retaining more muscle(both of which are still cheating), than a lot of the alternatives, it's a poor choice for anything else really. That's why Oxiloflorine is worse for me. Those other listed effects for clen were found only in high doses, the relevance there is that Canelo was found with trace levels and if you were taking high amounts it would stay in your system a lot longer(especially for the hair follicle test). Many people have made the argument that Canelo doesn't train in Mexico but his results were actually consistent with him ingesting a small amount while he was in Mexico(people don't care about reading into things before creating their "gotcha" arguments it seems). The hair follicle test especially would have gave away heavy usage over a longer period and it did the opposite, it basically cleared him. Secondly the reason people wont be doing high doses, especially not over a sustained period is that it has not been deemed safe for human consumption in the USA for a reason(again unlike the above substance BJS was using). Body builders can maybe get away with the negative side effects(heart problems etc) more but championship boxing requires immense levels of fitness. It just wouldn't be worth it.
I should state that I'm not excusing Canelo for what he had in system, he has enough money to hire people to handle all of that and should be responsible for what he puts in his body, other Mexican fighters might not have the same luxury though and his excuse does leave more benifit of the doubt than BJS or Fury's have for me. It was right he was sanctioned but a life time ban for a weight cutting drug is far too excessive, steroids would be a different matter. He has never been found with steroids in his system though and it doesn't even look like he's on steroids, people have to say "look at his neck", look at his arms and legs, they are in proportion. People like to think they can tell when they don't have a clue really, same with AJ "look at his gut" it's bollocks. I'd say Manny Pacquaoi was more suspect than Canelo, his leg muscles were way out of proportion and he didn't just "retain strength" going up multiple weights he became a bigger puncher if anything, yet fanboys leap to his defence. I like Manny Pacquaoi more as a fighter for what it's worth but I'm just tired of the ridiculousness when it comes to Canelo.
The double standards with boxing fans is rife.
Oxilofrine (methyl synephrine) Doping - Cutting Drug helps Bodybuilders Burn Fat, Sprinters Smash Records - Articles and Blog - EliteFitness.com
[sc:masthead-std] [sc:salutation-std] Both world-class Jamaican and American sprinters have been using a banned drug called oxilofrine (also known as methylsynephrine, hydroxyephrine, oxyephrine, and 4-HMP) to boost their performance and smash records. Find out why these sprinters are breaking...
www.elitefitness.com
Unlike the above, many of the listed performance enhancing effects for Clenbuterol listed by armchair experts on boxing forums are not attainable at low doses. It helps you shed fat while retaining more muscle(both of which are still cheating), than a lot of the alternatives, it's a poor choice for anything else really. That's why Oxiloflorine is worse for me. Those other listed effects for clen were found only in high doses, the relevance there is that Canelo was found with trace levels and if you were taking high amounts it would stay in your system a lot longer(especially for the hair follicle test). Many people have made the argument that Canelo doesn't train in Mexico but his results were actually consistent with him ingesting a small amount while he was in Mexico(people don't care about reading into things before creating their "gotcha" arguments it seems). The hair follicle test especially would have gave away heavy usage over a longer period and it did the opposite, it basically cleared him. Secondly the reason people wont be doing high doses, especially not over a sustained period is that it has not been deemed safe for human consumption in the USA for a reason(again unlike the above substance BJS was using). Body builders can maybe get away with the negative side effects(heart problems etc) more but championship boxing requires immense levels of fitness. It just wouldn't be worth it.
I should state that I'm not excusing Canelo for what he had in system, he has enough money to hire people to handle all of that and should be responsible for what he puts in his body, other Mexican fighters might not have the same luxury though and his excuse does leave more benifit of the doubt than BJS or Fury's have for me. It was right he was sanctioned but a life time ban for a weight cutting drug is far too excessive, steroids would be a different matter. He has never been found with steroids in his system though and it doesn't even look like he's on steroids, people have to say "look at his neck", look at his arms and legs, they are in proportion. People like to think they can tell when they don't have a clue really, same with AJ "look at his gut" it's bollocks. I'd say Manny Pacquaoi was more suspect than Canelo, his leg muscles were way out of proportion and he didn't just "retain strength" going up multiple weights he became a bigger puncher if anything, yet fanboys leap to his defence. I like Manny Pacquaoi more as a fighter for what it's worth but I'm just tired of the ridiculousness when it comes to Canelo.
The double standards with boxing fans is rife.
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Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
Great post.This is what BJS got caught with and used an excuse of "nasal spray" for a substance which is not widely used in the UK or the USA to begin with. Similar to steroid cheat Fury and his "boar meat" bullshit excuse, IMO they both got caught and sought out legal advice on what to say. This is different to the situation in Mexico, where Clen is widely used in the cattle industry, so much so that the organisers have now raised the tolerance levels for Mexican fighters because of the increasing number of cases. So yes, eating the meat has triggered numerous positive results because even trace amounts show up(which is what Canelo had). Anyway this is what was in BJS' system, who thought it right to throw stones from glass houses:
Oxilofrine (methyl synephrine) Doping - Cutting Drug helps Bodybuilders Burn Fat, Sprinters Smash Records - Articles and Blog - EliteFitness.com
[sc:masthead-std] [sc:salutation-std] Both world-class Jamaican and American sprinters have been using a banned drug called oxilofrine (also known as methylsynephrine, hydroxyephrine, oxyephrine, and 4-HMP) to boost their performance and smash records. Find out why these sprinters are breaking...
Unlike the above, many of the listed performance enhancing effects for Clenbuterol listed by armchair experts on boxing forums are not attainable at low doses. It helps you shed fat while retaining more muscle(both of which are still cheating), than a lot of the alternatives, it's a poor choice for anything else really. That's why Oxiflorine is worse for me. Those other listed effects for clen were found only in high doses, the relevance there is that Canelo was found with trace levels and if you were taking high amounts it would stay in your system a lot longer(especially for the hair follicle test). Many people have made the argument that Canelo doesn't train in Mexico but his results were actually consistent with him ingesting a small amount while he was in Mexico(people don't care about reading into things before creating their "gotcha" arguments it seems). The hair follicle test especially would have gave away heavy usage over a longer period and it did the opposite, it basically cleared him. Secondly the reason people wont be doing high doses, especially not over a sustained period is that it has not been deemed safe for human consumption in the USA for a reason(again unlike the above substance BJS was using). Body builders can maybe get away with the negative side effects(heart problems etc) more but championship boxing requires immense levels of fitness. It just wouldn't be worth it.
I should state that I'm not excusing Canelo for what he had in system, he has enough money to hire people to handle all of that and should be responsible for what he puts in his body, other Mexican fighters might not have the same luxury though and his excuse does leave more benifit of the doubt than BJS or Fury's have for me. It was right he was sanctioned but a life time ban for a weight cutting drug is far too excessive, steroids would be a different matter. He has never been found with steroids in his system though and it doesn't even look like he's on steroids, people have to say "look at his neck", look at his arms and legs, they are in proportion. People like to think they can tell when they don't have a clue really, same with AJ "look at his gut" it's bollocks. I'd say Manny Pacquaoi was more suspect than Canelo, his leg muscles were way out of proportion and he didn't just "retain strength" going up multiple weights he became a bigger puncher if anything, yet fanboys leap to his defence. I like Manny Pacquaoi more as a fighter for what it's worth but I'm just tired of the ridiculousness when it comes to Canelo.
The double standards with boxing fans is rife.
In an ideal world it would be lovely to list out banned substances and issue life time bans for anyone that strays. The problem is, with a sport that has been so rife with misdemeanor throughout its existence, you would left with very little to offer.
I am not applauding the use of 'enhancers' but I am also slightly more open to the idea that they are all probably up to it to obtain a competitive edge (effectively, are there any fighters that are genuinely 'clean' nowadays?).
The fighters safety should be paramount and as a comparison, the likes of Margarito gor about a 12 month ban for loadi up his gloves with plaster cast or the like.
What appeared to be the equivalent of hitting Cotto with two concrete lumps. Mosely was lucky that his trainer picked up the white powder concealed in Margarito's wraps or he would have been on the end of the same (of which, hasn't Mosely been done for steroids or the like?).
Anyway I digress........
Metalartin
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Yep, sadly we would be left with very few decent fighters IMO, if everyone who had ever used any substances to gain an edge in training, was firstly caught and then issued a life time ban. Yes Mosely was banned for steroids and also amphetamines(they didn't say which one, I wonder if it was Oxiloflorine?). Take a look at the list below:
Category:Doping cases in boxing - Wikipedia
I will say though, if you think it's bad now, the 80s and 90s must have been a free for all, with the level of testing available back then.
I think the plaster wraps is on the level with steroids in terms of cheating, that's beyond looking for "an edge in training". I was a fan of Cotto too and those of us who watched Kermit Cintron vs Margarito fights will wonder if the loaded wraps were present as far back as that. He(Cintron) did apparently say in an interview before the Margarito vs Cotto fight happened, he picked Margarito on the basis that: "I have never felt a puncher like Margarito, his punches feel like no other."
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Manchester1894
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Such a dirty sport isn't it? If your opponent isn't on something, they might try and dodgy handwrap or do that glove trick where the fist is clenched in thinner part of glove and whack you. They might hold in a way that tries to pop your arm out, they could headbutt you, stand on your toes, punch blindside/on the break etc. They can be an absolute menance in the press conferences, they can argue about ring size, glove types, and even when you've got past all that and your boxing well, a judge will rob you.