The Boxing thread

Was watching something on Ali earlier on (there are some great documentaries on him and others on Sky and Netflix and the like), anyways it got me to thinking, pound for pound who was the greatest of all time?

Obviously this is incredibly subjective - answers on a postcard folks.............
 
Onholiday(somemightsay) said:
Was watching something on Ali earlier on (there are some great documentaries on him and others on Sky and Netflix and the like), anyways it got me to thinking, pound for pound who was the greatest of all time?

Obviously this is incredibly subjective - answers on a postcard folks.............
Click to expand...
The common consensus is Sugar Ray Robinson but in my book it's Amir Khan.
 
Most hardcore boxing fans say Robinson but most of the generations who say it are taking other people's word for it(described as the most complete fighter) because there's very little quality footage to verify it for ourselves unfortunately. He was Ali's hero and inspiration too though, which goes a long way towards the credibility of the claim.
 
On the subject of other fighters in the conversation though.

I'm not too concerned with who people have as number one personally, I can't really decide myself because I realise most of them weren't active in my lifetime. I did watch a good video on the fighter Willie "Will o' the Wisp" Pep was a while back though and whilst his name is becoming more well known again, with some picking him as their number 1. I still think he should be more well known and in more top lists at least... and no it's not just because his name is Pep . ;)

The footwork, body/head movement and all around ringmanship(grappling and a little bit of the dark arts when he needed to), really were something else. To the point where he was making good boxers look like novices because he'd have them missing punches. Then falling over/through the ropes, from positions where they thought they had him pinned. There's some good footage online which demonstrates it too. 'The modern martial artist' on youtube, has done more than one technical breakdown of his style with some nice footage, with explanations, if you like that sort of thing.

Described as the greatest featherweight of all time, and arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Any fighter who boxed 1,956 rounds in 241 bouts and only lost 11 times and drew once, has to be something special. That's a lot of fights and a staggering amount of rounds, by any era's standards. One fact I found amazing, is he survived a plane crash in 1947, suffering serious injuries and he still somehow fought and won 10 fights in the same year. He was back in the ring, just 5 months after the crash.

In 1947, at the height of his career, the indomitable featherweight was flying from Miami to Hartford, Connecticut, when the plane went down in New Jersey. Many of the passengers were killed in the accident, but Pep somehow lived.
While his survival was nothing short of miraculous, the plane crash left him badly injured. Pep spent five months in a full-body cast with two broken vertebrae, a compound fracture in his leg, and severe chest trauma. Doctors told him that he’d likely never walk again let alone step into the ring. Not one to disappoint, Pep proved them all wrong.
Click to expand...
That means he was back in the ring as soon as the cast came off, near enough. Fighters were clearly made of different stuff back then. His record at the time of the crash was 109-1-1.

He even fought Sugar Ray Robinson(the greatest middleweight, greatest p4p of all time to many) twice. Once in the amateurs, where Robinson was under a pseudonym to get paid for bouts in that state(while being the NYC champion) and lost in a close fight. Pep gave up 25lbs to the bigger Robinson and said, not only did he not know it was Robinson but he was told he wasn't a good fighter before the fight. I should say, that's based on Pep's account and people who watched the fight but some believe the weight difference wasn't that big and that Robinson "gave him a lesson" but there's no way to verify either side(fanboys will argue there is though). Then they fought again in an exhibition match in 1965, when they were both older and had endured many fights(and a plane crash).
 
Metalartin said:
On the subject of other fighters in the conversation though.

I'm not too concerned with who people have as number one personally, I can't really decide myself because I realise most of them weren't active in my lifetime. I did watch a good video on the fighter Willie "Will o' the Wisp" Pep was a while back though and whilst his name is becoming more well known again, with some picking him as their number 1. I still think he should be more well known and in more top lists at least... and no it's not just because his name is Pep . ;)

The footwork, body/head movement and all around ringmanship(grappling and a little bit of the dark arts when he needed to), really were something else. To the point where he was making good boxers look like novices because he'd have them missing punches. Then falling over/through the ropes, from positions where they thought they had him pinned. There's some good footage online which demonstrates it too. 'The modern martial artist' on youtube, has done more than one technical breakdown of his style with some nice footage, with explanations, if you like that sort of thing.

Described as the greatest featherweight of all time, and arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Any fighter who boxed 1,956 rounds in 241 bouts and only lost 11 times and drew once, has to be something special. That's a lot of fights and a staggering amount of rounds, by any era's standards. One fact I found amazing, is he survived a plane crash in 1947, suffering serious injuries and he still somehow fought and won 10 fights in the same year. He was back in the ring, just 5 months after the crash.


That means he was back in the ring as soon as the cast came off, near enough. Fighters were clearly made of different stuff back then. His record at the time of the crash was 109-1-1.

He even fought Sugar Ray Robinson(the greatest middleweight, greatest p4p of all time to many) twice. Once in the amateurs, where Robinson was under a pseudonym to get paid for bouts in that state(while being the NYC champion) and lost in a close fight. Pep gave up 25lbs to the bigger Robinson and said, not only did he not know it was Robinson but he was told he wasn't a good fighter before the fight. I should say, that's based on Pep's account and people who watched the fight but some believe the weight difference wasn't that big and that Robinson "gave him a lesson" but there's no way to verify either side(fanboys will argue there is though). Then they fought again in an exhibition match in 1965, when they were both older and had endured many fights(and a plane crash).
Click to expand...
That is a great write up and demonstration through the YouTube video mate. He must have been infuriating to fight with his feet and head movement sending you the wrong way and throwing you off balance.

Not quite as relevant nowadays (as you can have endless hours of footage on pretty much any opponent at the drop of a hat), but when fighters would get in the ring with someone as unauthodox as Pep, it's questionable how much they would have seen of him (certainly in his earlier days) and how they would have managed to train to counteract him and his style (if at all).

The frequency of his bouts and as he wasn't a concussive hitter, the sheer number of rounds is staggering.

Some unbelievable stories thrown up throughout the age of boxing............
 
boxing and drugs in some cases go hand in hand. So many pound for pound fighters have been caught out its wrong. The whole of the boxing unions should come out and have a Zero tolerance on certain drugs. On some of the minor drugs maybe a warning aka party drugs if caught in there system. A yellow card do it again there gone.

I always love this time of the year a Olympic year. The new Canelos , Calzaghes , Hayes , AJs of this world will be operating and in this day and age our Olympic fighters should be the role models for the young kids in the gyms in the future. Imagine with a kid in the local gym had a gym mate that made Team GB , Ireland or the US teams it be amazing for them to train side by side.
 
Metalartin said:
On the subject of other fighters in the conversation though.

I'm not too concerned with who people have as number one personally, I can't really decide myself because I realise most of them weren't active in my lifetime. I did watch a good video on the fighter Willie "Will o' the Wisp" Pep was a while back though and whilst his name is becoming more well known again, with some picking him as their number 1. I still think he should be more well known and in more top lists at least... and no it's not just because his name is Pep . ;)

The footwork, body/head movement and all around ringmanship(grappling and a little bit of the dark arts when he needed to), really were something else. To the point where he was making good boxers look like novices because he'd have them missing punches. Then falling over/through the ropes, from positions where they thought they had him pinned. There's some good footage online which demonstrates it too. 'The modern martial artist' on youtube, has done more than one technical breakdown of his style with some nice footage, with explanations, if you like that sort of thing.

Described as the greatest featherweight of all time, and arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. Any fighter who boxed 1,956 rounds in 241 bouts and only lost 11 times and drew once, has to be something special. That's a lot of fights and a staggering amount of rounds, by any era's standards. One fact I found amazing, is he survived a plane crash in 1947, suffering serious injuries and he still somehow fought and won 10 fights in the same year. He was back in the ring, just 5 months after the crash.


That means he was back in the ring as soon as the cast came off, near enough. Fighters were clearly made of different stuff back then. His record at the time of the crash was 109-1-1.

He even fought Sugar Ray Robinson(the greatest middleweight, greatest p4p of all time to many) twice. Once in the amateurs, where Robinson was under a pseudonym to get paid for bouts in that state(while being the NYC champion) and lost in a close fight. Pep gave up 25lbs to the bigger Robinson and said, not only did he not know it was Robinson but he was told he wasn't a good fighter before the fight. I should say, that's based on Pep's account and people who watched the fight but some believe the weight difference wasn't that big and that Robinson "gave him a lesson" but there's no way to verify either side(fanboys will argue there is though). Then they fought again in an exhibition match in 1965, when they were both older and had endured many fights(and a plane crash).
Click to expand...
FYI - there is a film that was green lighted a couple of years ago on Willie Pep (I assume it has been pushed back a fair bit due to Covid but hopefully still in the pipeline)............
 
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