The Boxing thread

[Santiago Street]

Great is an overused word

Naz had great talent but wasn't a great fighter

it depends on how you use great, i think he was a great fighter but should he be remembered as one of the greats, possibly not, i think the Naz 1996 to mid 97 could have beaten anyone he just never came close to seeing his full potential, for me for someone who never really gave boxing his full 100% to beat everyone bar 1 he fought does show he was a great fighter, not saying he didnt train hard sometimes but did he put the same in as say Froch, Hopkins, Mayweather ? no chance.

The one time he fought a genuine elite fighter he crumbled mentally. Whether that's down to his own psyche or years of over indulgence by the Ingles i don't know.

I knew a guy who worked in his camp, ex fighter himself, who said his training was farcical. This was when he was with Manny Steward though so maybe his hunger had diminished by then.

 

[kinkysleftfoot]

Anybody going to the Call of Duty event in Manchester on the 8th?

 

[bluemc1]

Great is an overused word

Naz had great talent but wasn't a great fighter

it depends on how you use great, i think he was a great fighter but should he be remembered as one of the greats, possibly not, i think the Naz 1996 to mid 97 could have beaten anyone he just never came close to seeing his full potential, for me for someone who never really gave boxing his full 100% to beat everyone bar 1 he fought does show he was a great fighter, not saying he didnt train hard sometimes but did he put the same in as say Froch, Hopkins, Mayweather ? no chance.

The one time he fought a genuine elite fighter he crumbled mentally. Whether that's down to his own psyche or years of over indulgence by the Ingles i don't know.

I knew a guy who worked in his camp, ex fighter himself, who said his training was farcical. This was when he was with Manny Steward though so maybe his hunger had diminished by then.

i wouldn't say he crumbled mentally, he was just completely outfought that night, he was taking big shots all night but never stopped trying to land the knockout blow, it was a joke that that was his only plan at that level but he dug deep many times so i would never question his mental strength for a fight,

 

[Santiago Street]

Maybe"crumbled mentally" is a bit harsh. Haven't watched that fight for years but my impression as I remember it was that Barrera crushed his spirit.

Trying to land a big shot to the end could be viewed as desperation rather than mental strength. Naz did dig deep in many fights as you said and I'd never question his mental strength per se but at the highest level tiny differences in your mentality can make a whole world of difference in the ring. All fighters are bullies to some extent, Naz perhaps more than most, and once he realised that he couldn't intimidate Barrera he just shrunk into himself in my opinion. I might trawl youtube and see if it's on there.

I think if he'd hooked up with Steward 3 or 4 years earlier Manny might have been able to change his style sufficiently to have been able to beat Barrera and Morales. He had a great career and was a bona fide world champ but for me he's not hall of fame material.

 

[bluemc1]

Maybe"crumbled mentally" is a bit harsh. Haven't watched that fight for years but my impression as I remember it was that Barrera crushed his spirit.

Trying to land a big shot to the end could be viewed as desperation rather than mental strength. Naz did dig deep in many fights as you said and I'd never question his mental strength per se but at the highest level tiny differences in your mentality can make a whole world of difference in the ring. All fighters are bullies to some extent, Naz perhaps more than most, and once he realised that he couldn't intimidate Barrera he just shrunk into himself in my opinion. I might trawl youtube and see if it's on there.

I think if he'd hooked up with Steward 3 or 4 years earlier Manny might have been able to change his style sufficiently to have been able to beat Barrera and Morales. He had a great career and was a bona fide world champ but for me he's not hall of fame material.

i made my first trip to Vegas at 23 to watch the fight, was gutted for weeks after, it is on youtube, only remember one bit of joy for Naz he landed a big left down the middle and grinned at Barrera who just put his gloves up at motioned come on then, cant remember the round but you will see it,
i was shocked a few years ago when asked who the biggest puncher he ever faced Barrera said Naz as i dont remember him landing much but I've never watched it back in full so might just have a really negative view of it, not sure but think the most on any judges score cards he won by was 3 rounds.
i think a big problem was how hard Naz hit and it made him think he could cut other corners and get away with it, McCullough said it was freakish power that sent tingles down his spine, and Steward said he was the Hardest hitting pound for pound fighter he ever had, that he couldnt believe the bloke in front of him was hitting the pads.
i agree with you on hall of fame as for me it should be the best of the best, but if some of the fighters already in it can get in so could Naz

 

[leighton]

Ricky Burns v Terence Crawford is on this weekend on Sky. Burns is at 7/4 to win the fight. Taking he is the world champion and fighting at home that price its a huge price with Paddy Power. Crawford is 4/9 I get a feeling of a Jeff Lacy fight here with this American not fighting anyone major apart from Prescott who beat Khan so he needs to KO Burns to win the fight. I think it will go to the cards and Burns by 2 rounds.
Also on the undercard its nice to see John Murray back a good win on Saturday night could open up a rematch with Kevin Mitchell. Always liked Murray as a fighter. Took a few months off after back to back defeats so is now back in the swing of things still a lot more to come from him.
Ogogo and Joshua are also on the card want to see both step up more so Joshua looks a real prospect.

 

[Lost Pilot]

Hamed is not an all time great IMO shamelessly ducked Marquez for 18months, stepped up to world level and got schooled. Marquez would have taken him to pieces.

Would have rather seen Khan v Mayweather but feel maybe Chino has earned it more, saying that I don't think he'll win a round. Another borefest, at least Khan would have a bit of excitement.

Some other good fights over the Weekend Chavez Jnr v Vera rematch, would love to see Vera fuck him up and actually get the decision this time. Also Lomanchenko going for a world title in his second pro fight.

Think Crawford will outpoint Ricky Burns in a snooze fest, the fella need a serious personality transplant.

 

[Santiago Street]

bluemc,

I bet that was a night to remember for you pal ! I think you're right to say his power made things too easy for him and he started cutting corners. Saw him train once or twice and the thing that most struck me was the strength in his legs, he had thighs like an east german shotputter and did amazing springing exercises while warming up.

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So many good fights to watch tomorrow it's a shame we're all up early on Sunday. I think Stieglitz Abraham will be a much better fight this time around. It's time for DeGale to put in an exciting performance and put himself in with a decent shout of meeting Froch or Groves in the autumn. I don't really follow amateur boxing and dunno much about the featherweights but it's absolutely fucking amazing that this Lomachenko lad is heavily odds on to win a world title in only his 2nd fight.

I too hope Vera batters Chavez again after being raped by the judges last time. And if we're worried about dodgy decisions in favour of the house fighter we won't have to go to Texas to find them - Crawford will have to stop Burns to beat him if Eddie Hearn has anything to do with it and many say he does.

Personality transplant for who, Burns ? Seems like a nice lad to me.

 

[leighton]

The thing is with Ricky Burns his last fight the injury which put him out for a good few months didnt help him he should of lost that fight and got lucky to get the draw. I dont think Burns will be as bad as that night. Also think he will put in a preformance. Hearing that in training all is going well. He is so determined to show everyone that this is his time. He hasnt done well since his switch to Matchroom and he knows that if he wants top money when his deal ends he has to up the level he is fighting at.

Lomachenko only got beaten once in the ams some record for the amount of fights he boxed. I beleive Orlando Salido came in overweight for the fight so if he wins he wont win the title. So only Lomachenko can win the title. A gifted boxer fighting against a bit of a banger not a top level banger but out of his last 7 fights he won 6 and lost 1 winning 6 by a KO. I know Rigondeaux won his World title in 8 fights after his Am days and is technically 1 of the p4p best fighters I have seen but just think Am and Pro game is totally different. You never know how a figter reacts until he takes a shot or 2 on the chin this could end badly for the lad tonight but he boxes he wins it on the cards.

 

[chris63]