The Boxing thread

[mccity]

I think Bellew, Froch etc were spot on.

AJ just didn't have that 'fear factor', did he underestimate him? Only he knows. Fair fucks to Ruiz though, can tell what it means.

Reckon AJ will do him at Wembley personally, but who knows.

Here's what I think happened.

Because the fight was made at short notice, AJ's camp hadn't had the time to do their full research and relevant training. On top of that, he almost certainly was getting cocky and probably didn't take things seriously enough.

When he got that first knockdown, the first time Ruiz had been knocked down in his career, he made a mistake. First of all, he couldn't be too sure whether he'd hurt him or just caught him off balance. Secondly, not being prepared enough for Ruiz specifically, he should have said to himself, 'I have 10 and a half more rounds, just keep doing what I'm doing and I'll win easily'.

Instead, maybe with the pressure of this being a showpiece fight and with Wilder's recent 1st round KO, he decided to come inside and go for the kill. Against a shorter height, shorter reach, lightning handspeed guy with a 20st power base who he didn't know much about and whether he was truly hurt. Lo and behold, Ruiz catches him with a great counter, wobbles him and takes him down.

Personally, that first knockdown was brutal enough to set things going against him. He was up against it from there and the damage was done. And the fact he wasn't prepared for how to deal with a guy like Ruiz just made his life really difficult. And the rest was history.

What's disappointing is that in the end Ruiz didn't have to box smart. Joshua just boxed like an idiot.

 

[Paul1970]

Here's what I think happened.

Because the fight was made at short notice, AJ's camp hadn't had the time to do their full research and relevant training. On top of that, he almost certainly was getting cocky and probably didn't take things seriously enough.

When he got that first knockdown, the first time Ruiz had been knocked down in his career, he made a mistake. First of all, he couldn't be too sure whether he'd hurt him or just caught him off balance. Secondly, not being prepared enough for Ruiz specifically, he should have said to himself, 'I have 10 and a half more rounds, just keep doing what I'm doing and I'll win easily'.

Instead, maybe with the pressure of this being a showpiece fight and with Wilder's recent 1st round KO, he decided to come inside and go for the kill. Against a shorter height, shorter reach, lightning handspeed guy with a 20st power base who he didn't know much about and whether he was truly hurt. Lo and behold, Ruiz catches him with a great counter, wobbles him and takes him down.

Personally, that first knockdown was brutal enough to set things going against him. He was up against it from there and the damage was done. And the fact he wasn't prepared for how to deal with a guy like Ruiz just made his life really difficult. And the rest was history.

What's disappointing is that in the end Ruiz didn't have to box smart. Joshua just boxed like an idiot.

Problem is Joshua is not as good as everyone thinks he is . 2 years ago vlad had him beat but couldn’t finish it . And now Ruiz didn’t just get a lucky shot he broke him down round by round . Joshua is a british hype job end off . Maybe he wins a he rematch but I know one thing he will never fight in the USA for a long time if ever again . Only people that believe the hype of Joshua are part time boxing fans

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Problem is Joshua is not as good as everyone thinks he is . 2 years ago vlad had him beat but couldn’t finish it . And now Ruiz didn’t just get a lucky shot he broke him down round by round . Joshua is a british hype job end off . Maybe he wins a he rematch but I know one thing he will never fight in the USA for a long time if ever again . Only people that believe the hype of Joshua are part time boxing fans

Ah right, you put 'end of' so no point debating anything now.

 

[ShaunMCFC]

Here's what I think happened.

Because the fight was made at short notice, AJ's camp hadn't had the time to do their full research and relevant training. On top of that, he almost certainly was getting cocky and probably didn't take things seriously enough.

When he got that first knockdown, the first time Ruiz had been knocked down in his career, he made a mistake. First of all, he couldn't be too sure whether he'd hurt him or just caught him off balance. Secondly, not being prepared enough for Ruiz specifically, he should have said to himself, 'I have 10 and a half more rounds, just keep doing what I'm doing and I'll win easily'.

Instead, maybe with the pressure of this being a showpiece fight and with Wilder's recent 1st round KO, he decided to come inside and go for the kill. Against a shorter height, shorter reach, lightning handspeed guy with a 20st power base who he didn't know much about and whether he was truly hurt. Lo and behold, Ruiz catches him with a great counter, wobbles him and takes him down.

Personally, that first knockdown was brutal enough to set things going against him. He was up against it from there and the damage was done. And the fact he wasn't prepared for how to deal with a guy like Ruiz just made his life really difficult. And the rest was history.

What's disappointing is that in the end Ruiz didn't have to box smart. Joshua just boxed like an idiot.

Agree with that mate.

 

[Skip Donoghue]

I've just watched the Joshua fight and it looked to me that he gassed he run out of steam simple as that, Its got to be a concern for him, as he's not getting any younger, he is to muscular for me and what I have just seen reminded me so much of Frank Bruno who was known for gassing and carried a similar physique

 

[Paul1970]

Ah right, you put 'end of' so no point debating anything now.

How good do you really think he is then fella ? My problem is most people think he is the second coming of Christ because of the hype. It reminds me abit like Ricky Hatton. When he beat Kosta Tzyu who was on the decline a lot of people jumped on the Hatton bandwagon even some actually believing he would beat mayweather and manny pac -man . Don’t get me wrong Hatton was a great fighter but not elite . But the trouble with Joshua is the British public so want him to be the best fighter since Ali that they are blinded by this

 

[TCIB]

Should Joshua, if he is good enough, not be able to weigh the fella up there and then to a decent extent? I mean it is not exactly theoretical physics. Surely a top boxer can adapt to the circumstances? I understand it counts to an extent but it surely can't be an excuse. A top boxer should be able to deal with any style and opposition body type.

 

[Paul1970]

Should Joshua, if he is good enough, not be able to weigh the fella up there and then to a decent extent? I mean it is not exactly theoretical physics. Surely a top boxer can adapt to the circumstances? I understand it counts to an extent but it surely can't be an excuse. A top boxer should be able to deal with any style and opposition body type.

Great fighters can adapt to any fighter during a he fight. Joshua is a good fighter but that’s about it . Ruiz didn’t sucker punch him he actually broke him down in virtually every round . The worry for Joshua is that he gassed as early as the 3rd round and that’s a worry

 

[ShaunMCFC]

How good do you really think he is then fella ? My problem is most people think he is the second coming of Christ because of the hype. It reminds me abit like Ricky Hatton. When he beat Kosta Tzyu who was on the decline a lot of people jumped on the Hatton bandwagon even some actually believing he would beat mayweather and manny pac -man . Don’t get me wrong Hatton was a great fighter but not elite . But the trouble with Joshua is the British public so want him to be the best fighter since Ali that they are blinded by this

I get that he's been hyped, no doubting that. If you were to build a perfect heavyweight boxer, appearance wise, you wouldnt be far off AJ. That's what ultimately draws the attention to him. I don't think he's dogshit as many people are now making out. I honestly believe he just took Ruiz too lightly and this might be good for him.

Each to their own, Fury is probably the best in the division, ability wise. Do I think AJ can get to that level? Yes I do. I'm by no means an AJ super fan by any means, that's just my opinion and how I see it.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Great fighters can adapt to any fighter during a he fight. Joshua is a good fighter but that’s about it . Ruiz didn’t sucker punch him he actually broke him down in virtually every round . The worry for Joshua is that he gassed as early as the 3rd round and that’s a worry

I don't think I've ever seen anyone view a fight as bad as you have with this one. Joshua was sucker punched because he tried to take him out after knocking him down. Until that point, although he wasn't looking great, he was in full control and had Ruiz hurt. If he'd been patient and stuck to what he was doing he'd have won comfortably. Instead, probably under a lot of pressure with everything going on with Wilder and Fury and fighting in the USA for the first time, he tried to take him out in spectacular fashion. But he's too slow for someone like Ruiz who took his opportunity of hitting AJ clean on the counter on the inside. AJ was concussed and dazed from that point on so anything that happens after that isn't really worth evaluating because until that point Ruiz had barely landed a glove on him. What we know about AJ is once he's hit flush and his legs have gone he loses all his senses and starts dropping his hands and getting hit too easy.

AJ simply doesn't box to his strengths - his size and strength. He's a victim of his own success of blowing people away and entertaining crowds. But as he goes up the levels the opponents get quicker, sharper, stronger and wiser. He has many faults - gassing after going on the attack, low shot resistance, lack of nous once he's been hit, not being patient, not sticking with gameplans etc. But his overall best performances was against parker where he controlled the fight from the middle of the ring from behind his jab. parker is one of the best in the business but he couldn't touch Joshua. If Joshua boxes like that he can reign supreme again but if he fights with the intention to entertain and blast people away he'll lose many more.

 

[phud]

Has someone else on here has already said Joshua reminds me of Frank Bruno physique of a body builder who can punch hard but has a suspect chin & gasses out far to easily .

 

[TCIB]

What dynamics will change now? I mean in respect of the picking and choosing of fights. Does that loss mean he now loses that power and others have more equal deal rights? Will he have to fight people his managers would not have fought previously? In short, how much does this darken his star?

Also what does this mean in general for the division? Will Wilder and Fury be ranked higher now or? Indeed what is Fury's next step.

Sorry for all the q's, kinda interested in this from a casual fan perspective.

 

[aguero93:20]

What dynamics will change now? I mean in respect of the picking and choosing of fights. Does that loss mean he now loses that power and others have more equal deal rights? Will he have to fight people his managers would not have fought previously? In short, how much does this darken his star?

Also what does this mean in general for the division? Will Wilder and Fury be ranked higher now or? Indeed what is Fury's next step.

Sorry for all the q's, kinda interested in this from a casual fan perspective.

Unless he gets his belts back in the rematch he won't be dictating terms to anyone and he'll be in the queue for a title shot with all the others, as Parker was after losing to AJ.

 

[TCIB]

Unless he gets his belts back in the rematch he won't be dictating terms to anyone and he'll be in the queue for a title shot with all the others, as Parker was after losing to AJ.

You reckon he will get it back? I think that fella did him fair, along with a solid chin it makes it an absolute tossup for me. AJ has skill but that fella is a double hard bastard. He did not seem put of by the hard shots at all.

 

[Paul1970]

I get that he's been hyped, no doubting that. If you were to build a perfect heavyweight boxer, appearance wise, you wouldnt be far off AJ. That's what ultimately draws the attention to him. I don't think he's dogshit as many people are now making out. I honestly believe he just took Ruiz too lightly and this might be good for him.

Each to their own, Fury is probably the best in the division, ability wise. Do I think AJ can get to that level? Yes I do. I'm by no means an AJ super fan by any means, that's just my opinion and how I see it.

Agree that Tyson fury is the best hw at the moment . I do think that usyk will be the best if he adapts to hw .

 

[jay_mcfc]

Unless he gets his belts back in the rematch he won't be dictating terms to anyone and he'll be in the queue for a title shot with all the others, as Parker was after losing to AJ.

To an extent, but he's still the money man. AJ v Wilder or Fury is still the biggest fight that can be made, it would absolutely drown all over fights money wise. If he were to lose the rematch in the UK he'd be in real trouble but then there'd still be huge fights against Whyte, Usyk, parker etc. Even if he loses his next three fights he'd still make $100m doing so.

 

[Paul1970]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone view a fight as bad as you have with this one. Joshua was sucker punched because he tried to take him out after knocking him down. Until that point, although he wasn't looking great, he was in full control and had Ruiz hurt. If he'd been patient and stuck to what he was doing he'd have won comfortably. Instead, probably under a lot of pressure with everything going on with Wilder and Fury and fighting in the USA for the first time, he tried to take him out in spectacular fashion. But he's too slow for someone like Ruiz who took his opportunity of hitting AJ clean on the counter on the inside. AJ was concussed and dazed from that point on so anything that happens after that isn't really worth evaluating because until that point Ruiz had barely landed a glove on him. What we know about AJ is once he's hit flush and his legs have gone he loses all his senses and starts dropping his hands and getting hit too easy.

AJ simply doesn't box to his strengths - his size and strength. He's a victim of his own success of blowing people away and entertaining crowds. But as he goes up the levels the opponents get quicker, sharper, stronger and wiser. He has many faults - gassing after going on the attack, low shot resistance, lack of nous once he's been hit, not being patient, not sticking with gameplans etc. But his overall best performances was against parker where he controlled the fight from the middle of the ring from behind his jab. parker is one of the best in the business but he couldn't touch Joshua. If Joshua boxes like that he can reign supreme again but if he fights with the intention to entertain and blast people away he'll lose many more.

I do agree with a lot of what your saying mate but I do think even in the first 2 rounds Ruiz was easily Joshua . But you make a lot of good points

 

[aguero93:20]

You reckon he will get it back? I think that fella did him fair, along with a solid chin it makes it an absolute tossup for me. AJ has skill but that fella is a double hard bastard. He did not seem put of by the hard shots at all.

If Joshua sticks to the gameplan and paces himself next time then he'll beat him.

 

[aguero93:20]

To an extent, but he's still the money man. AJ v Wilder or Fury is still the biggest fight that can be made, it would absolutely drown all over fights money wise. If he were to lose the rematch in the UK he'd be in real trouble but then there'd still be huge fights against Whyte, Usyk, parker etc. Even if he loses his next three fights he'd still make $100m doing so.

He still won't be dictating the terms, they will.
The belts make the match, people want to see higher stakes than a WBC ranking.

 

[Dicko69]

This could be aj's Lewis v rahman moment if he avenges it, or like has been mentioned, he's just a modern day frank Bruno, time will tell. Hopefully he's learnt, like Lewis did, your most important fight is the next fight, not the perceived bigger ones after