Apart from the couple of posters who are. But then looking at who it is disputing the validity of what was said I can’t say I’m overly shocked.
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The British Monarchy
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The perfect fumble
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Apart from the couple of posters who are. But then looking at who it is disputing the validity of what was said I can’t say I’m overly shocked.
Also true.
I should've been more precise, what I meant was no one who was a party to the conversation is disputing the essentials.
tolmie's hairdoo
Well-Known Member
Oh, TH, that's possibly the least honest description of events I’ve seen?
She didn't "ask a genuine question" she asked successively -
1 “Where are you from?”2 “No where do you come from?3 “No, what part of Africa are YOU from?”4 “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”5 “No, but what nationality are you?”6 “No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?”7 “Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?”8 “Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean?”
Now, I dont care if you think it's racist or not, by the 4th time of asking, it stops being polite and starts being an interrogation.
The 7th question - "where did you first come here?" is after she's been told twice that the other woman was born in London, and the tone of it shows it's no longer polite conversation but demanding.
But when is a lack of politeness or the obvious disconnect from an 88-year-old, enough to be bracketed as a racist or lose a job they have held for 60-odd years?
I have interviewed many elder people who are very direct and want direct answers, even if the other person isn't aware of it making others uncomfortable. I wish more of society was like this and didn't go around the houses, and are unapologetic, as it then encourages debate and learning.
As part of her job, one of her purest remits is to introduce people to the Queen Consort and provide a topic of conversation, to put guests at ease.
The laboured tone certainly indicates the offended lady hadn't grasped the nettle, which could be said for both of them, clearly.
It's become a political football, following the accusations of racism first made by Markel.
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But when is a lack of politeness or the obvious disconnect from an 88-year-old, enough to be bracketed as a racist or lose a job they have held for 60-odd years?
I have interviewed many elder people who are very direct and want direct answers, even if the other person isn't aware of it making them uncomfortable. I wish more of society was like this and didn't go around the houses, and are unapologetic, as it then encourages debate and learning.
As part of her job, one of her purest remits is to introduce people to the Queen Consort and provide a topic of conversation, to put guests at ease.
The laboured tone certainly indicates the offended lady hadn't grasped the nettle, which could be said for both of them.
This is purely political, pawns, following accusations of racism first made by Markel.
She's a professional lady in waiting, who's job as you said is to do this kind of thing full time. It's completely implausible that she was somehow just being socially clumsy and impolite when she's had a lifetime literally practicing these skills.
She obvious felt she had the right to demand this woman's personal history and interrogated her until she got the answer she wanted (yes, interrogate, because repeating a question until you get the answer you want is not conversation).
Maybe that was just old fashioned snobbery, maybe it was racism, but either way she seems ill suited from the job - which she resigned from.
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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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I think the anti-monarchy thing is starting to become clear now. The old lady is out of a job and besides an apology from the palace to the lady that was upset, I'm not sure there is more that can be reasonably be expected to be done. With workplace grievances, unless it's a criminal act then the general principle is to resolve these sorts of things informally if possible at the lowest possible level. I'd have thought the resignation/sacking already way exceeds that and along with an apology is as much/more than can be reasonably expected. Once people want to go beyond that you have to start wondering about their actual motives - in this case it seems taking 3rd party offence to advance an anti royal agenda.There are thousands of news stories everyday, this one on the surface is a nothing story, it doesn't contain any of the usual elements for clicks, it has no celebrities, there's nothing salacious about it, it's not even that interesting, yet it runs and runs.
So the news story is not the story, it's why it's the news story that is the story.
tolmie's hairdoo
Well-Known Member
She's a professional lady in waiting, who's job as you said is to do this kind of thing full time. It's completely implausible that she was somehow just being socially clumsy and impolite when she's had a lifetime literally practicing these skills.
She obvious felt she had the right to demand this woman's personal history and interrogated her until she got the answer she wanted (yes, interrogate, because repeating a question until you get the answer you want is not conversation).
Maybe that was just old fashioned snobbery, maybe it was racism, but either way she seems ill suited from the job - which she resigned from.
Perhaps ill-suited to the job at 88, certainly in today's climate.
My own opinion is she simply misread the room because of seeing her name tag and cultural dress she wore for the occasion.
So what's your take on it?
Snobbish woman makes series of racially insensitive remarks that ruins charity worker's day out at the Palace, charity worker complains and it goes viral because (on the same day where one of the most famous politicians in the country lamented the fact London is not white enough, and a few weeks after someone firebombed an immigration centre housing African & Middle Eastern refugees) racism is a topic that's still very keenly felt by a lot of people in this country.
No doubt the fact the King's son has left the country and Royal family because he feels his wife faced racial discrimination also plays a part in the story going big.
What I'm not seeing is the various conspiracies that several posters are implying but then chickening out of actually saying.
"Fake Heritage" "join the dots", "it's all a set up" etc. is fucking bizarre, as are the claims this woman is lying about her recollection of events despite the other party to the conversation nor the witnesses disputing it, or the idea that *she* is the racist one because her charity helps black women.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
So explain to me how the British Empire, the days of which those in power at the moment would love to take you back to,….. works.
Those that a white army subjugated in their own countries, are only British as long as they stay in their ‘own’ subjugated country.
When they decide to travel to the motherland of England they are no longer British?
Is that it?
Not for generations anyway until they are sufficiently integrated and they look white enough?
Asking for a friend.
Britishness genuinely confuses him.
Those that a white army subjugated in their own countries, are only British as long as they stay in their ‘own’ subjugated country.
When they decide to travel to the motherland of England they are no longer British?
Is that it?
Not for generations anyway until they are sufficiently integrated and they look white enough?
Asking for a friend.
Britishness genuinely confuses him.
JamesMCFC
Well-Known Member
As I lay in bed last night thinking of nothing as one does before going to sleep a conversation I had in Washington DC as I queued with others to visit some building or other came back to me...
Lady in queue to me: (after some innocuous remarks) Where are you from?
Me: England.
Lady: Oh which state is that?
Me: None it's Britain. (note no Great just Britain)
Lady: Mmmm, is that a Northern State then?
Me: No it's in Europe (we were still there at the time)
Lady: Ohhhhhh so you need a passport to come here.
We then went on to discuss the fact that it was her first time outside one of the states, can't remember which one, and other things. But I didn't think she was racist because she had never heard of Britain...... was I naive? ;-)
Never heard of England but speaks English