The Calais problem (merged)

RandomJ said:
Nail on head. I saw a few of the ones trying to cling to lorry's openly admit they want to get here because of our generous welfare system. They know once their feet touch our soil they will be protected by human rights laws, European laws etc and it will be next to impossible to shift them. Just look how long it took us to get rid of Abu Hamza who had terrorist links so we don't have a snowballs chance in hell of moving on these people.

Several posters seem to think we have plenty of space for these people but I made a post about the real knock on effects they will have. The NHS, housing, schools, transport, public services all things already creaking will come crumbling down. We are up to our eye balls in debt and are slowly trying to get the country going again after the economic crisis the last thing we need is this. France need to get their house in order or we should send people to do it for them.
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The problem is that what we see as an economic crisis and real economic problems is what many parts of the world see as extremes wealth and beyond their dreams. It would be hard for a person who gets $100 a year to feel too bad for someone whose income has gone from £50k to £20k which would be a big problem for us. For someone who has no doctor a swamped NHS one would still be amazing as would a class of 40 for a kid getting no education.
 
RandomJ said:
Nail on head. I saw a few of the ones trying to cling to lorry's openly admit they want to get here because of our generous welfare system. They know once their feet touch our soil they will be protected by human rights laws, European laws etc and it will be next to impossible to shift them. Just look how long it took us to get rid of Abu Hamza who had terrorist links so we don't have a snowballs chance in hell of moving on these people.

Several posters seem to think we have plenty of space for these people but I made a post about the real knock on effects they will have. The NHS, housing, schools, transport, public services all things already creaking will come crumbling down. We are up to our eye balls in debt and are slowly trying to get the country going again after the economic crisis the last thing we need is this. France need to get their house in order or we should send people to do it for them.
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Tell me about this legal aid that illegal immigrants qualify for?
 
KenTheLandlord said:
That is a pretty big jump in an assumption. We have no way of knowing.
Maybe MES has some ideas on how to integrate those people.
Starting them off with somewhere to sleep, eat, shower and treat them as humans. Then maybe have them in a education centre and help them learn English, unless they speak it well enough already. See what qualifications they have. I bet a pound to a pinch of shit there will be plenty of educated people there. After say 6 months of figuring them out and explaining life in Britain, some may want to go home. I would rather be fuckin miserable in the sun. Others may well be ok and see that they have been treated well and respond in kind. Not all countries have the social problems we have.

Just throwing a few out there its 1.30 :)
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So which part of the Government spending cutbacks is going to fund these centres where they can be fed, given somewhere to sleep and taught English? We already have not enough money in the NHS, Schools and Law and Order and many people already in this country are homeless and under fed and ill-educated, why do we think we need to add to that number?

Just askin... It's only 08:38
 
BigJoe#1 said:
So which part of the Government spending cutbacks is going to fund these centres where they can be fed, given somewhere to sleep and taught English? We already have not enough money in the NHS, Schools and Law and Order and many people already in this country are homeless and under fed and ill-educated, why do we think we need to add to that number?

Just askin... It's only 08:38
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That is true but why is that the press and politicians manage to make the immigrant with nothing trying to get to countries like the UK and aus the focus for anger about the problems you mention? Perhaps it is because it is more convenient to turn the anger of the populous against poor immigrants rather than wealthy tax dodging politicians and media owners who if they spent as much time and effort trying to help as they spend on trying to avoid paying tax may be helping make a dent in these problems.

Immigrants in Calais are a tremendously convenient scape goat to big up, turn anger against so that the real issues can be conveniently ignored
 
EalingBlue2 said:
That is true but why is that the press and politicians manage to make the immigrant with nothing trying to get to countries like the UK and aus the focus for anger about the problems you mention? Perhaps it is because it is more convenient to turn the anger of the populous against poor immigrants rather than wealthy tax dodging politicians and media owners who if they spent as much time and effort trying to help as they spend on trying to avoid paying tax may be helping make a dent in these problems.

Immigrants in Calais are a tremendously convenient scape goat to big up, turn anger against so that the real issues can be conveniently ignored
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If I was on a council house waiting list and a family/group of immigrants pitched up were housed ahead of me I think I'd be pissed off, same as if my kids had to go to an under achieving school which then had a load of "new starters" who couldn't speak English turn up therefore slowing down any education they were getting to allow these new starters to catch up (which they probably never will)... While we're at it what about if your cancer suffering mother or Father that has Altzeimers are denied the best medical treatment whilst pregnant immigrants are using NHS money to give birth... as well as paying for an army of translators to help them understand what's going on?

Sorry, but until we have the money to sort out the problems that already exist in this country, as much as I might feel sorry for these people who have chosen to travel across Europe and sit on our doorstep I'm afraid I we don't want or need them here. If they are in fear of their lives they should have applied in the first country the came to. THE TRUTH IS THEYRE NOT AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN ANY KIND OF HOSPITALITY OR CONSIDERATION FOR ASYLUM!
 
Local councils have no money, they are cut to the bone so is call me Dave going to stump up the cash is he fuck, personally I'd build proper camps sod the PC brigade give them shelter, food and medical aid all paid for by the United nations. Police it with army to stop it becoming a ghetto, process these people properly. There are a lot of MOD military bases that could be easily used. Once processed they are either given asylum or deported. Those given asylum do not receive any benefits or go to the bottom of the list for housing etc.
Some times the old ways don't work and it's time for new ideas to solve new problems.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
If I was on a council house waiting list and a family/group of immigrants pitched up were housed ahead of me I think I'd be pissed off, same as if my kids had to go to an under achieving school which then had a load of "new starters" who couldn't speak English turn up therefore slowing down any education they were getting to allow these new starters to catch up (which they probably never will)... While we're at it what about if your cancer suffering mother or Father that has Altzeimers are denied the best medical treatment whilst pregnant immigrants are using NHS money to give birth... as well as paying for an army of translators to help them understand what's going on?

Sorry, but until we have the money to sort out the problems that already exist in this country, as much as I might feel sorry for these people who have chosen to travel across Europe and sit on our doorstep I'm afraid I we don't want or need them here. If they are in fear of their lives they should have applied in the first country the came to. THE TRUTH IS THEYRE NOT AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN ANY KIND OF HOSPITALITY OR CONSIDERATION FOR ASYLUM!
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So you leave Iraq for Syria are you safe? Or should you then move on to jordan, with jordan already flooded what happens if Jordan then falls to ISIS due to humanitarian crisis? Where do you go then Turkey? When Turkey starts to crumble where do you go then? Unfortunately the solution you mention isn't credible? How do you think the Turkish government would react to being told by its western "allies" sorry it's your problem you're the nearest? Do you think western interests in that area would then be protected? So sadly for our own best interests the idea that you can just make it someone else's problems won't work, it never has and it never will.

Also do you genuinely think that with the total wealth of Britain the problems you mention could not be solved with a collective desire? Do you think that whilst footballers earn 300k a week or bankers 50m bonuses there isn't enough money for basics?

Do you genuinely think it's fair that media barons who pay next to no tax are free to lecture the population on how their problems relate to those with nothing rather than those with everything?

I also find it utterly amazing that reasonable people would rather kid themselves that people will give up everything and flee across the world for a sinister reason rather than admitting that maybe the world is just a little unfair!

The truth is we want to protect what we have and we don't give a sh&t about the far away with nothing, at least that is intellectual honesty rather than hiding behind an obvious untruth!
 
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Blue Maverick said:
Local councils have no money, they are cut to the bone so is call me Dave going to stump up the cash is he fuck, personally I'd build proper camps sod the PC brigade give them shelter, food and medical aid all paid for by the United nations. Police it with army to stop it becoming a ghetto, process these people properly. There are a lot of MOD military bases that could be easily used. Once processed they are either given asylum or deported. Those given asylum do not receive any benefits or go to the bottom of the list for housing etc.
Some times the old ways don't work and it's time for new ideas to solve new problems.
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Many of these ideas are very worthy but most of them cost a lot more than the failed policies of today.

Look at Australia it has a "successful" policy but the cost per boat person is around $250000 dollars so in order to pretend we are saving money on benefits we spend many many billion which could be going to schools.
 
stonerblue said:
Tell me about this legal aid that illegal immigrants qualify for?
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Abu Hamza received legal aid. If you're a savvy illegal immigrant you can knock up the local slag, the resultant bundle of joy can then be used to access that marvellous human rights act enshrined so masterfully into English law by the left's favourite baddy Tony Blair, and demand your removal from the UK be quashed as you're entitled to a 'Family life.' Once this process starts, Hey Presto! legal aid.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
So you leave Iraq for Syria are you safe? Or should you then move on to jordan, with jordan already flooded what happens if Jordan then falls to ISIS due to humanitarian crisis? Where do you go then Turkey? When Turkey starts to crumble where do you go then? Unfortunately the solution you mention isn't credible? How do you think the Turkish government would react to being told by its western "allies" sorry it's your problem you're the nearest? Do you think western interests in that area would then be protected? So sadly for our own best interests the idea that you can just make it someone else's problems won't work, it never has and it never will.

Also do you genuinely think that with the total wealth of Britain the problems you mention could not be solved with a collective desire? Do you think that whilst footballers earn 300k a week or bankers 50m bonuses there isn't enough money for basics?

Do you genuinely think it's fair that media barons who pay next to no tax are free to lecture the population on how their problems relate to those with nothing rather than those with everything?

I also find it utterly amazing that reasonable people would rather kid themselves that people will give up everything and flee across the world for a sinister reason rather than admitting that maybe the world is just a little unfair!

The truth is we want to protect what we have and we don't give a sh&t about the far away with nothing, at least that is intellectual honesty rather than hiding behind an obvious untruth!
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Wrong on so many levels....

Where do you reside now? IIRC Australia?...
 
We've reaped what we've seen here, bomb Iraq, Libya and arm Syrian Rebels. Then little thought for the aftermath and grab for power. Why have we created situations where refugees will risk being drowned to cross the Mediterranean or clinging to the bottom of a truck to get into our country?

If we did want to solve the border issues round the tunnel why don't we copy what the French do in Paris? You can't get near a Eurostar train as its surrounded by an electric cage. You don't see refugees trying to get on there.
 
blueish swede said:
or let them on a ferry, take them to the UK and process their aplications for asylum the way a decent country would.

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They aren't seeking asylum. They are economic migrants.
 
Rascal said:
We bomb foreign lands and wonder why people want to leave them. We help create the likes of ISIS and the Taliban and wonder why people want to leave there. As a former Imperial power on whose empire never set and on which we built the wealth of the nation we wonder why those people look to the "colonial" master when times are hard.

The claim asylum at the point of entry to the EU is silly,because If granted they can come to the UK on an EU passport without risking there lives.

Germany has taken 176,000 asylum seekers, the UK just 24,000. Whether we like it or not people on this planet see the UK as a bastion of fairness and justice ( they should read here and that notion would soon be banished from there heads) Im quite proud of how the UK is viewed abroad but our current Government is doing its best to make us look a total bunch of selfish inward looking twats.
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Knew you'd blame the UK.

What's it like loathing your country as much as you do?
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
We've reaped what we've seen here, bomb Iraq, Libya and arm Syrian Rebels. Then little thought for the aftermath and grab for power. Why have we created situations where refugees will risk being drowned to cross the Mediterranean or clinging to the bottom of a truck to get into our country?

If we did want to solve the border issues round the tunnel why don't we copy what the French do in Paris? You can't get near a Eurostar train as its surrounded by an electric cage. You don't see refugees trying to get on there.
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We haven't created the situation, the majority of migrants are not from the countries you mention.
 
Moriati said:
Wasn't it Sarkozy's (election driven) idea (aided and abetted by call me dave and obama) to bomb the shit out of Libya ? Western intervention in the Balkans, Africa and the Middle East results in displaced people and refugees.
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I think the genocide in the Balkans was a bit worse than they Western intervention there.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
So which part of the Government spending cutbacks is going to fund these centres where they can be fed, given somewhere to sleep and taught English? We already have not enough money in the NHS, Schools and Law and Order and many people already in this country are homeless and under fed and ill-educated, why do we think we need to add to that number?

Just askin... It's only 08:38
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Well maybe just maybe the £93bn a year that businesses are handed on a plate from the taxpayer, a transfer of more than £3,500 from each household in the UK, for grants, subsidies and tax breaks, should be enough. They would not need to do the £12bn cutbacks then would they. Also they would have £81bn to start making inroads into the record debt Britain has.
 
KenTheLandlord said:
Well maybe just maybe the £93bn a year that businesses are handed on a plate from the taxpayer, a transfer of more than £3,500 from each household in the UK, for grants, subsidies and tax breaks, should be enough. They would not need to do the £12bn cutbacks then would they. Also they would have £81bn to start making inroads into the record debt Britain has.
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I'd love to know how your formulated those figures.
 
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